Q7 vs. Q4 direct comparison

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Akageshi, Jan 20, 2019.

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  1. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Hi. Here's a direct split screen comparison of Q7 vs. Q4 set I made:



    So we've had discussions on which set is the best for Rangers, and I've always advocated Q4 because I used it for a long time and I was mad about how everyone kept praising Q7 for its unseen power.

    With R214 I bought the Q7 set and started using it. It felt super powerful just like the legend said. But I was wondering if I could see it more objectively.

    Also, a Q4 user Hetsunien said in this post:

    and provided 2 videos proving how amazing the Q4 set is.

    I must admit, he managed to kill Heredur (Infernal 4) twice as fast as I with the Q7 set.

    But the problem is, I have much lower damage output, mainly because of my critical hit hate, that is 49% on inf 4, while Hetsunien's is exceeding 75% if I'm not mistaken. My base damage is lower too.
    He's most likely more skilled too. I'm a n00b.

    _______


    In the comparison video I'm not using Bird of Prey on the Q4 set, which is strange, right? The bee swarm that this skill is turned into, is this set's bonus skill.
    Yes, but in my opinion, the bees are not strong enough and don't have short enough cool down for me to feel like it's a good trade off for any of my skills I like using.

    Maybe you are better at actual gameplay, and maybe you would use the bees, so you might kill the boss a bit faster, given that you had the same stats as me.
    But the time difference is just too big for anyone to think that Q4 set is good enough, let alone better.
     
    navelko likes this.
  2. DamarèRo

    DamarèRo Advanced

    Q7 is the best choice for ranger...if it was about a mage diferent tail.
     
    Akageshi likes this.
  3. Hetsunien

    Hetsunien Padavan

    Let alone this comparison. Q7 has clearly better damage output, but it's mechanic is kinda annoying. People build Q7 with New Moon items, so if they miss the net (at least at walking enemies) the most they can shoot is 1 or 2 EA, or in a better case use Fire Shot which is not essence cost rentable

    The thing is I'm not using Q7 yet still I'm not doing it that bad with another build. So yeah, basically no matter what you use, use it well and have fun.
     
    ΣMiwel and Akageshi like this.
  4. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    The key difference is burst damage. In your comparison, you demonstrate that the Q4 had better sustained damage under your testing conditions, but I believe that most RAs prefer the Q7 set due to it's burst damage against small groups of monsters. In map clearing, when you have some time between groups (for those times where the cool down triggers), burst damage is more beneficial.

    Since you've done this first video, I'd be very curious to see you do another similar video of a side by side clear of a map with your two set ups.
     
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  5. Javah

    Javah Forum Duke

    As mage, I strongly prefer q7 after having compared it with q4 in almost the same conditions (both weapons crafted with the same bonuses type and value). The q7 set's mechanic is pretty elaborated - not annoying for sure - while q4 is for brainless playing - that's boring really, considering how boring this game is for itself. And the dmg throughout of q7 set is higher, but you have to practice to use it at its best.

    Closed parentheses :) let's talk about RA now.
     
  6. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Damage of q7 higher on SW? Have you done any maths or you're speaking from how it feels, which strongly depends on your playstyle?

    I have actually done the math, it depends on many things, this includes your current setup, amount of global %D you currently have, ess you use etc. With higher essences, Q4 beats Q7 over the roof. With lower, q7 isn't necessarily more powerful as well. It could be, but it could be not.
    Brainless playing?
    Every class, every setup can be played skillfully or can be spammed. I could say that q7 binds you to a repetitive skills pattern. On the end it all depends on what you do with the tools you take. The single thing I hate is the attitude you're demonstrating right there.
    My setup is the best, it requires skill, and the other possibilities out there are for n00bs who have no brains.
    That's not the way to go.

    Returning onto topic, ranger's Q4 is not that bad either, the main problem (with the other being high BoP Bee Swarm cooldown) is it's a hoaxbow, and it chops through your concentration pretty quickly. As every class' q4 set, it's getting better (in comparison to q7) as the essence used increases, but the EA spam is too strong a buff, there is no such buff on SW's q7 and that's why mages have a balance between q4/q7/bloodrune.
     
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  7. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    I have to admit I probably didn't use the Q4 set to its maximum performance.
    I'll try to make more videos so the Q4 set doesn't look so bad...

    You're right about the two different tactics.
    However, I wish Q4 had a more defining bonus or unique attribute. Q7 is "that set with the burst of buffed explosive arrows", but Q4? Scatter shot with bleeding is not even a set attribute, it's just on the bow alone. I'll use the bees next time, but they are not enough to make this set really stand out.
    You probably remember the ideas I and other people had in the creative corner, on how to make Q4 great. Shame that none of that will ever find its way into the game. It's pretty good against groups of monsters, but there needs to be a way to make it better against single targets. Q7 is superb in both cases.

    Yes, I want to make more vids using the two sets. I even sacrificed augment cores to upgrade Tormentor to tier 7, so it'd be shame not to use it ever...

    I don't know how the two sets work for mages, but from what I heard and read here, the difference is much less significant. Good for you, mages!

    Rangers' Q7 is super strong and feels very spammy, but there's danger. You really have to aim. You miss with the Net and you're screwed if you're counting on the hit.

    Ranger's Q4 is not for brainless people. Scatter Shot sure doesn't require aiming really, but the damage output on that is abysmal compared to Q7. Also, damage over time, I mean, ain't nobody got time for that.

    I'd suggest Q4 set bonus tweaked Scatter shot more. Added a bonus on Blade Dance for its similarity to Bearach's spinning attack. Buffed the Bees. Or something...

    Yes, well said. Repetitive skills pattern.
    Q7 = Thorns -> Net -> EA spam
    Q4 = Use everything you have, count 4 seconds to re-inflict bleeding, wait for Bees or don't use them at all. Run around a lot.

    What if the Bees were more connected to the bow's Scatter Shot bonus?
    For example:
    Every enemy that is bleeding from Scatter Shot and gets hit with the Bees, is being hit by "blood thirsty" bee swarm every 0.5 seconds for 100% base damage for as long as the target is bleeding. This would apply to every monster that is hit directly with the Bees as well as indirectly with the 2 meter radius stun.

    This would actually make you want to use the two skills more carefully. You'd want to first send the bees and then hit the monster/s with scatter shot just before the bees hit it, to maximize the 4 seconds of bees being all mad...​
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  8. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    This would make sense, as the boss himself also seems to have some sort of DoT on his bees (from some specified mode up), even though they deal so much damage anyways that they're pretty much one hit. I've seen some tanks on high modes surviving the first hit from bees and then somehow dying a second after from an unknown force.
     
    Akageshi likes this.
  9. Hetsunien

    Hetsunien Padavan

    What if (now that set bonuses don't work in pvp) the Bird of Prey tranforms into Bees with 300% increased damage on it? Or a pack of 3 bees swarms doing 100% lightning damage each? There are a thousand ways to improve items, just developers are not interested in doing so.
     
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  10. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    Q4 set bonus is ridiculous , mass stun in 2 meters area :D:D:D with 30 sek cooldown :eek::D:D:D. Real set bonus is pure critical in bow & belt. But q4 bow work without belt , like a burning skill in q7 gloves. Lately very often we have so pretty laaaaaag ( thank you BP ) & very often the net miss. The same happens with group play with strong damagers or with noobs - often spamers killed net target or mage noob used mind control ,results: no buff, no free bombs , no dmg. Q4 bow has no such limitations. You can use both q4 bow & q7 gloves - net for mass mark skill, DoT from bleeding+ burning efect.

    Someone mentioned bloodrune bow , max dmg base for t7 bow is 411- 495 - like 1h longbow :eek: , and this garbage cost 9k drakens o_O:D:D
     
  11. Javah

    Javah Forum Duke

    If so, please post your math cause I am curious to read it.

    I didnt make any math by myself, but I have read those made a while ago by a user on Italian forum and - yes - Q7 demonstrated a higher dps in almost ALL the configurations (except those so extreme that are only theoretical for most of the players).

    Clearly, this assumes that the player would be skilled enough to trigger on the Q7 buff almost all time (that is not impossible) or, better, in almost all the situations where is useful to have it on. Cause it is what that makes the difference (in case it was necessary to say it).

    Anyway it is possible (the math on ita forum didn't contemplate it) that powerful ess move the balance needle in favor of Q4 set but - again - I am playing using both of the weapons/sets and I never seen that Q7 would be beaten over the roof. Lol.

    Frankly, if math says white and at the practical act I see black, ofc I am predisposed to choose black. Just watch a clock and see what is slower and what is faster for your (mine) playstyle :)

    Of course. Do you see any use of brain while grabbing Q4? With it just push the key and get the effect. You can even put the brain to do other things while you play, and the result will be the same.


    OK. Here I withdraw, I do not want to continue to occupy the discussion space for the rangers. Aloah.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2019
  12. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Yes. There's the unique attribute and the set bonus.
    The Q4 unique attribute is on the bow, which is the scatter shot bleeding.
    The Q7 unique attribute is on the gloves, which is the net burning.

    Comparing the two alone, I'd say Q4 wins because bleeding lasts for 4 seconds and can be re-inflicted immediately after the 4 seconds time. Scatter shot also has a larger area of effect.

    The net has a cooldown of 10 seconds or so, and it can hit fewer enemies at once.

    But then there are the set bonuses. And Q7 destroys Q4 here.

    Yes, this is what makes Q7 slightly less more powerful than Q4, because you can just miss for reasons you listed.
    Although Bees are slow, so the target is often killed before they hit :/

    In fact, the Blood Rune Bow has this +100% weapon damage bonus. If you craft the same enchantments onto this bow as your Q7 bow, for example, you'll have almost the same base damage, and your DPS will probably be better because Blood Rune Bow is faster.

    The problem with Blood Rune Bow is that +100% weapon damage is only active as long as you're above 33% hp, and it also has no other unique attribute. And the blood rune set has no offensive advantage either, except +33% att. speed for 3 set pieces.


    That's right, there are many possible ways to improve it. I have no idea why the devs just don't care and just keep pushing the one ideal build for all :/
     
  13. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    Brainless playing is primary skill for SW spamers with q8 set, playing with ranger develops good positioning skills, sense of distance,sence of timing .;)
    Almost permanent q7 buf for rangers isn`t impossible for short time ,but inverse is too possible -
    the net almost never repeat.
     
    Javah likes this.
  14. Javah

    Javah Forum Duke

    Exactly. I totally agreed.
     
  15. Arr

    Arr Forum Expert

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