Suggestion Q8 set for dwarfs

Discussion in 'Speakers‘ Corner' started by Slabutul9, Jul 11, 2018.

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  1. callme0216

    callme0216 Padavan

    At least if you has a point as you did before i admit my bad.
    Not as now that you just blaming me cause of it.
    The mage was a 2 hand, and could manage to destroy the turrets.
    Every time i make a point you just lowroll it and makes excuses.
    Dwarf not placing 2 turrets front of him? Dude sometimes you dont have time to put down turrets, you easily can get 2 hit just because of that.
    The Dwarf had to run for the mage, and the mage knew that the dwarf will run out of steam as you can see 1:40 the starting, and slowly the mage had advantage agains the dwarfs who got pushed into the corner, but i quess im wrong again...
    Trust me you wasting your time, just as me with you.
    Dwarfs in before 209 had as much chance agains mages fireball spam, tanks with cube set as they now.

    Here you go. :)
    Look at it clooser ,cause not for long will be on.

    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  2. Slabutul9

    Slabutul9 Someday Author

    Why on a discussion about pvp you post your 2h stats, also vids with 2h ppl. If you play pvp like in the picture than sry but you shouldn't speak about pvp at all. Without wisdom what is your life? 20k? what armor and resist? And then you complain about turrets beeing easy to kill ? Sorry but is just BS. And again, what you wanted to prove posting your 2h stats here? Or you think they are OP or something and was supposed to be something like "Look at my stats, i am op so i know what i am talking about" ? If that was the reason or not...your stats are pretty bad anyway.
  3. callme0216

    callme0216 Padavan

    This is how much you care anything here..
    Why you cant enter pvp with 2 hand or what?
    I thought 1 hand is an optional build.
    Whats wrong with my stats?
    "Your" dwarf has 10-15k hp more?
    Yes ,that a big-big difference while i have a weapon with 249% idoti.
    Is that mean "your" dwarf is bad too?
    I can make +10k hp anytime with runes.
    Rather ready to buy something new with it.
    Get out here with your dissrespectfull behavior no one cares about the arrogancy of yours.

    He asked for my stats ,im not flexing with it, not every people same as you i dont need fans to be someone in this game.
    Speak about youself dude ;)
    tbh didnt expected much from you ,sry.

    End of the story for me have fun with someone else.
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2018
  4. Slabutul9

    Slabutul9 Someday Author

    Main pvp build is with 1h and shield. Playing pvp on 2h you are a just a targed, also with that defense (less in pvp since i see your stats are with wisdom) you shoudln't survive to more than one fireball by a mage. With 0 block, low armor, low resist and arround 25/30k life which i guess you pvp is obvious that your turrets will easliy to destroy, when i compared the chars in pvp i ment 2 different chars with a pretty maxed pvp build (one hand/sheild) not 1 hit 2h pvp. Get arround 90k hp 80% armor 70% resist 80% block and arround 70% block power and then come back here again and tell me that turrets are easy to destroy. Also especially when you are DK, isn't like the turrets and the dwarf wont hit you while you destroy them, you will die before you do that . The arguments you used followed by your stats and also: ''Why you cant enter pvp with 2 hand or what? I thought 1 hand is an optional build.'' shows that you have no pvp esperience and never played pvp at ''high'' lv .

    And whats wrong with your stats? Again. even against an 1h player you should be nothing esle than one hitted, your defense is lower with wisdom than a good dwarf (for pvp in this case) should have without wisdom.
    When you don't even have a PvP build you shoudln't even get into a conversation about pvp at all.
    callme0216 likes this.
  5. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    I think, while it is true that his opinion about turrets being weak defences-wise can be easily turned down by your actual reality (they take into account hp, block & co.), saying he can't speak about PvP because he doesn't have a PvP build (that people decided to be balanced 1H, since it gives nice survivability and good dmg) is wrong as well.

    He may give an opinion based on his reality (turrets die easy), wich is true for his reality. To you they die after many attacks - or just don't die - because you find players with 1H balanced setups.
    Both are true, not just your or his.

    For you they need to be nerfed in order to balance their dmg output and survivability, for him they should be kept like they are because they already have balanced dmg output and survivability.
    Guess what? Again both are right.

    Your suggestion would balance your PvP, but may end up destroying others' PvP...

    Well, in the end, other than this idk what to write, wich means, I don't have solution for both parts :D and is not even my job :rolleyes:
  6. Slabutul9

    Slabutul9 Someday Author

    There is one thing thought. ''your suggestion may end up destroying others pvp...''? Why? For you a PVE build should be equal with a PVP build IN PVP ? His arguments are valid only by playing with a PVE build against a PVP build. Once again 2h is not for pvp, if you play 2h and lose or die against other chars .. dont complain and make a pvp build. If you speak about pvp on 2h.. what i should say about DK then ? Then even with the best 2h pvp stats you die before you touch something? But again. 2h is not for pvp so idc about that. Maybe is time for ppl to realize what build they need for different stuff before saying some BS.
  7. callme0216

    callme0216 Padavan

    Just let the topic go dude, several friends just supporting hes idea.. Ofc they will say just as what he saying thats why they are friends.
    Every point that you make they will deny it.
  8. Paavelsons

    Paavelsons Regular

    2h is good for pvp too. its all how you build it. and lot of players prefer 2h anwyay. its expensive to change it to 1h. AND with 2h its easyer to kill 1h turtles and viceversa. what you want to prove here ?

    change should be exactly without gems, nor glyps, without craft lines. only gear base stats. its simple. so simple.. we kill other players for wat ? grand master status ? and ? better we kill other players to earn honor experiance to add points to runspeed attackspeed damage defence etc.. would be better if wisdom only work on pvp.. or something. i wrote too weird. sorry.
  9. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    Man, I'm saying you have right to complain for turrets being very hard to kill vs 1H balanced dwarf, but also Callme have right to complain for them being too weak.

    There is no PvP build, otherwise you should make that build playing PvP.
    They all are builds you can use for what you want, some gives best result for PvE (2hand set up -> Q7 set), some for PvP (1H balanced), indeed it is obvious that 1H balanced will be better vs a 2hand build during a PvP match.

    While it is true that to play PvP at best (talking about enjoyment -> winning, not leaderboard) someone would better use cube set + dragan etc, you can't force all players to make a 1H balanced build because of many reasons, and since you can enter arena with 2hand, BP should also take into account it, not only 1H balanced setups.

    Whit this:
    I referred to you because you opened the thread, but it can be extanded to Callme too (his "proposal" is to not nerf Q8 set), or anyone that takes into account just his own garden.

    I do not complain about this, if I face a player with 1H balanced I know I'll loose because to have that set he must have farmed a lot, have many runes, god (with one O) crafted equips, all up to lv60 etc., I try to play for win, if it doesn't happen (always :D), maybe next time.
    But, I'm 90% sure it wasn't referred to me, so wrote for nothing:D

    I'm not saying he is wrong, but that things should go smooth for all (1H balanced and also 2H, since both exist)
    Slabutul9 likes this.
  10. Divinefury

    Divinefury Forum Apprentice

    Completely wrong.
    I play this game long enought to have my own opinion and I nicely explain you why you were wrong in my first comment, making a list of everything you said wrong.
    If you post another video which is basically completely useless considering the currently situation of dwarves, I can't keep making list and waste time. It's not only about you, if I would have been doin it with everyone who wrote things like you did in the past years, probably I won't have half of my resource in game.
    I don't need fans and I'm not arrogant at all, infact I've been hided for several years and I'm doing some video just now because the game become boring for me.
    I also stated with everyone who ask me that I don't want to be the best, something, strong or whatever you think I want to be.
    I asked yout IG status because it's clearly impossible to talk between two different levels of playing.
    And this is what Shiro said in his comments, so it's just your opinion and your point of view, I didn't want to see your stats to mock you.
    Thats all. I'm not here to fight with people.

    Thats said, I must say I dont agree with most of things said before and I'm gonna tell you why.

    Thats not 100% true.
    Everyone has rights to do whatever he wants to, but there is a difference between the right to write our own point of view and the objective truth.
    A top player complaining about something being too OP (like it's really OP undisputable) can (possibily) write an objective point of view because he is at the best of his class and can objectively see the situation at is final stage.
    There is no way an endgame player can handle an OP skill, talent, set if he's not able to do it at the best of his class.
    Otherwise, as you said, I can understand the problems low and mid gamers will have but nerfs and buffs can't be made on low and mid levels because both of them are just a temporary stages. In this way you'll need nerfs and buffs during the whole year because slowly all the player will increase their stats and gameplay and problems will slowly come out.
    If the player "X" have a problem at his low-mid condition, he cannot blame BP or buffs/nerfs but only himself and farm more and more.
    You can really understand what is "too much" or what is "too weak" only when you have the best stats possible.
    I don't know if I explained it in the right way because my english is not the best.
    I'm not someone who only think about himself, I wish I could work for free for this company for the best of everyone starting from new players, but it's clearly that you cannot base changes on the game on temporary stages.

    That's not true 100% also.
    Immagine if since tomorrow a lot of player will start playing 1h in PvE and they will ask for changes because they cannot afford to kill any map/boss. You can enter PvE with 1h like you can enter PvP with 2h.
    Won't you think they are fools?
    Yes you will, because even if BP doesn't force anybody to use specific items, sets, bonuses, talents, you must follow the best way to play possible, otherwise in my opinion you shouldn't talk about changes because it's your own choice to play in a bad way and a game cannot be balanced on wrong choices and bad chars. Be honest.
    There isn't any way to discuss about a balance system for 2h because of the same reason as before.
    If you balance 2h you must give everybody much more defence than now, which is already impossible since best players reached 80% armor and over 70% resist with 2h, but even if it was possible then you will completely destroy 1h fights because people won't have enought damage to kill each other.
    Thats why we must separate settings for their own natural use.
    I've been playing 2h for almost my all gamelife, I'm playing 1h only since 3-4 months so I'm not a huge 1h player in PvP but I must say I'll never ask to BP to balance PvP basing balancing systems on 2h fights because is just foolish.
    For this reason is easier for us and for them to separate, 2h for PvE and 1h for PvP, basically because 2h PvP won't ever be competitive again like it was maybe at level 50.
    Playing 2h you have no chance to win against strong 1h players who knows how to play, you can only hope in lucky crits or you are a living dead body since the beginning.
    If we are still waiting for a balancing system that will balance 2h and 1h at same time, well we'll asking something impossible, just think about it.

    This is the way people who don't play PvE or PvP seriously should think.
    You cannot pretend something like changes to make your game easier just because you don't wanna farm, get stronger, in both PvP and PvE.
    Like I said at the beginning the only kind of players who can really complain objectively (my opinion) are endgamers, because they cannot grow up more to handle something judged too "OP".
    In a mid-low situation, I'm repeating myself, you have only to blame yourself because something you think is fine or OP mostly is not at all and it's all about your weak/good status in that temporary stage of your gamelife.

    We can say that BP maybe could prefer to balance the game for thousands low-mid players than few hundred endgamers, but as I said I see objectively wrong this choice.
    Slabutul9 likes this.
  11. Shiro

    Shiro Padavan

    Maybe you'll do better :D
    Anyway, I wasn't saying to balance basing only on 2H but also nor only 1H... As explained, BP isn't forcing the equip choice, at least not directly (1hit kill arena), so you can enter arena while using any set up you want (i mean 2h/1h -see Trakilaki's and others that posted their equip- farm, 1h tanky and 1h balanced).
    Excluding tank set up, wich I don't need to explain its purposes for PvP, there are two set ups left that people use to play matches, and because of that, even if 1H balanced is what players should aim for because is the best for PvP (already stated in previous post), IMHO BigPoint should not ignore either one of those set ups, but find a way to balance for both.

    When I wrote CallMe have also a right to complain is because his turrets already are quite useless (defences wise) since they can be destroyed with 1hit, also they cost half of his steam.
    Nerfing their dmg would make them even more useless because for him they'll be a skill that cost 50 steam, deals low dmg and die easy.
    But also they can't stay as they are because, to make it simple, it is faster to kill them waiting the 10 sec duration than attacking them, when you play vs 1H dwarf.

    Man I wrote already, players decided 1H balanced is way to go for PvP because gives good dmg and high defences (so bb 1hit KO), not that this is wrong... It was a decision like calling a chair "chair".
    I could turn the question to you by asking: so about PvE, those who play with an 1H set up shouldn't complain because 2H has all the advantages of 1H plus nearly double the damages? And because of that, shouldn't they ask for some buffs, nerfs, or whatever?
    I do agree that there should be a clear statement that indicates 2Hs for PvE and 1H balanced for PvP, but then since you would be forcing all players to use also an 1H set up (or at least enter PvP with a shield and 1h weapon), then I think the time you'll need to make one should decease a lot.

    I'm just saying I try to chill out instead of raging after every match :D
    I do farm, even tho not as much as many players do, also crafting legends to finish 2h build (even 3/4 legend are ok for me) and started crafting 1H balanced items (luckily balor dropped a 3/4 legend shield with 118.something block rate and ~0.34 block strenght, so need to make just 1 more shield :D).

    As for the rest, is clear we see things in a different way. I explained what I mean (at least I hope so), you did too and I understood, maybe it isn't clear in this post, but I did...
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  12. lovatic66

    lovatic66 Junior Expert

    Haha quiet man, a little more and you want to hit me hahaha :confused:

    How am I doing?, I'm going full damage, 19k or 21k of damage and 4.45 of critical damage, and 30k of pv, is enough for me to kill any pj fast as well as to die fast, I would say that the only ones that usually beat me are the hunters with their 50k-80k explosives without hitting me in most cases, you know that blast radius is annoying annoying xd, I hit similarly with the heavy shot, That's why I gave up on life for that very reason, I only increase life with 1H players, in fact I have done well with them, I even have no problem killing the 1H dwarf turrets, as they have less damage, my turrets last longer with them than with 2H players, plus sometimes they allow me to use q7 buff more easily because they trust their stamina. :D

    My solution for pvp and I think some of you have already talked about this, is to remove all the sets of parallels and events in pvp, which are not worth the set, if you already removed the wisdom because you did not remove the bonuses from the set too. Believe me, the last ones to cry will be the dwarves. :cool:
    Last edited: Jul 23, 2018
  13. Divinefury

    Divinefury Forum Apprentice

    This victimhood is really bothering me since I started this game.
    I see victims everytime someone want to know IG levels/names, just stop it because there is nothing wrong in asking.
    The reason why I asked is because there are differents answers for differents players.
    A top player with a completely different point of view cannot change, mostly, so I won't waste time explaining reasons why he's wrong.
    All the others can have a different point of view based on wrong concepts, datas, lack of experience and then I can try to explain them how to see things from a different perspective.

    My parents taught me the first to do to learn in life is to admit that I was ignorant.
    The opinion of a doctor with 20 years of experience is not as good as that of a young doctor who has just graduated.
    Prototype would have used wrong "tones" resulting aggressive, but what he says is pretty much true.
    Everyone should have the chance to share his opinion, but BP should give different values to feedback because it's clear that inexperience result in trash comments and we had here the example of dwaves' towers.
    I believe your towers go down easy, but it's because your stats are really low, it's not because that skill itself is bad.

    Anyway I'll prefert to talk about PvP and Q8 for dwarves.
    I don't like to partecipate in this continuos OT talking.
    Slabutul9 likes this.
  14. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    I completely disagree ... and i will explain why.
    The arena is broken ... mainly because of the uber stupid buffs and bonuses.
    Therefore they should make new gear without those existing gamebreaking buffs.
    Gems and runes are complementing the gear ... they are not the issue whatsoever. Furthermore if the devs decide to remove them too ... they are going to make a big mistake because the game will collapse because of the dev's poor knowledge and skills.
    However ... the damage was done with the new system and the new base stats as well. It is not just the bonuses and buffs but the base stats are contributing to the game imbalance as well. The old base stats were almost perfect.
    The enchantments on items are OK they are only complementing the base stats.
    So ... in order to balance the arena they should remove those buffs and bonuses and lower the base stats on items.
    The new gear would not be having tiers ... all items would be T0.
    However ... even T0 items are gambreaking as they are now.
    Therefore the base stats should be lowered down. In example: if one T0 ring has max 600 crit ATM ... it should have base crit of 500 BUT only when glyphed up to level 60. So in reality the base crit would be lower than 500 when not upgraded.
    This should be done on all items and all base stats.
    When this done ... every single weapon and item and build is once again viable option in PvP.
    1H+shield, 1H+offensive offhand, 2H builds they will be all competitive in PvP.
    Because the players would not be able to reach max in all stats.
    If you play with shield you would have to take BR and BS from : Shield, rings, amulets ... in order to try to get the max possible BR and BS.
    However ... this will lead to lower HP and lower Armor.
    Because one would not be able to have max armor ( and beyond like ATM when having max armor while your armor is broken ) and high HP with max BR/BS.
    It will also lead to low crit and low crit damage. no more full crit and high crit damage with shield.
    One would have to chose between BR/BS and
    The same scenario will be applied to 1H + offensive offhand.
    The difference is this build will have no BS/BR but will have high crit and high crit damage.
    In fact the only build that would have chance to get max crit hit and crit damage would be 1H+ offensive offhand.
    2H builds would have higher base damage but would never reach beyond 50-55% crit or 200-250% crit damage.
    Now this is just example how it should be done ... the math behind it should be done by the devs. They are taking money for doing their job after all ... not me.

    And there you go all possible builds competitive again and no more 1 shot dead situations but rather longer and enjoyable combats ... and the arena at the old glorious level. And there will be happy and satisfied players who will only bring more new players in the game.
    One would have to balance things out ... but will never be able to get max of all stats.
    If you need more armor ... lower the damage/crit.
    If you need more BS/BR lower the HP and crit damage.
    If you need more HP/Armor you will have to sacrifice something else.
    And so on and so forth.
    The best balanced build would be the one with little bit of everything ... but not everything at max.
    The clueless devs are trying to take out the gems and runes ... which means all the hard work and investment gone to drain. That is not how you motivate people to play your game (your - highly questionable term. it is still unknown who and how many of them are in the dev team more than few months).

    As for the scaling low level players to cap level and putting them in fight with other cap level players ... it is just another bollocks.
    How can a player use a skill that one didn't even managed to unlock and use it in PvE.
    I have heard a lot of nonsense ... but this was the icing on the cake.
    DamarèRo, callme0216 and Veηom like this.
  15. callme0216

    callme0216 Padavan

    Few months ago devs announced that they want to detach PVE gear from PVP, so i quess rip those who build 1 hand gear.
    Then i dont know why they planing to make gems, runes useless in PVP.
  16. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Like you would able to use your 2H? :D
    Anyway ... what builds? You mean those 2 mainstream bandwagoner's Cube set and Q7 and nothing else?
  17. callme0216

    callme0216 Padavan

    Well then rip my 2 hand too.
    I can still use it in PVE.

    I seen quite a few one hand builds.
    Most from rangers.

    edit: But mostly dont really matter what 1 hand you choose ,its still will be useless.
    But hey.. if it makes PVP more enjoyable than here you go everybody.
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2018
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    I forgot to mention about DKs ...
    Dual wielding would be their 1H + offensive offhand item :)
  19. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    Your ideas could work, but that's why they'll be ignored

    But at least the gemless/runeless pvp is going to milk the tears out of some people, kudos to them if this actual trolling
  20. Divinefury

    Divinefury Forum Apprentice

    Your idea could work, but I don't feel like there is any need to change all those stuffs nowadays.
    I want to make clear that I talk always about 1h PvP, for this reason I don't think at all that PvP is broken after last changes.
    DKs seems to be pretty balanced, mages too, rangers same (except bugs) and the only class who need a little nerf are dwarves because of towers.
    What you said about OP effects of sets could be true, especially when we talk about Q7 or Q8, but once again I don't think it needs huge changes risking disasters by a company which is not famous for their smart patches.

    I've been playing PvP in the past months before and after Rel209 and things changed a lot.
    During my fights I can say damages, defences, skills, everything seems pretty balanced between those 3 classes now and I won't really change anything.
    Talking about things I think we need:

    1. They must rework Q8 and towers for dwarves. Those towers have too much defence, damage, speed.
    Something in those value must be nerfed, I'm not kidding when I say that towers are much stronger than dwarves themself.

    2. Nerf Q7 in his spam effect.
    They should change the effect reducing the number of fireballs "spammable" to a max of 6.
    (based on a medium ammount of mana of 125)
    A good mage will spam anyway 4 fireballs normally (35x4=140), so a -10 cost mana as new Q7 effect can be fair, they will gain only +1-2 fireballs.

    3. Solve bugs on EA which are already planned.

    4. They sould give to DKs a +% travel speed more than other classes.
    Nowadays rangers, mages and dwarves antistuns become way too fast for every DK and they can't just catch them with any other skill than jump and charge.
    I've been watching best DKs becoming "bate players" just using charges and jumps and run back because they know they can't reach their opponents.
    Or they can reduce the cooldown of furious battle cry, because in this way they should be able to use it when they need travel speed too.

    With these 4 changes PvP won't have any problem in terms of balancing in my opinion and at same time anybody will be disappointed because BP change everything destroying what people builded with efforts and money.
    I think we're pretty close to a balance PvP nowadays.
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
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