Discussion in 'Test Server' started by trakilaki, Mar 22, 2019.

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  1. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Sorry, I'm slow...

    I took this from the video I was talking about:

    Can you explain what is going on there ^?

    At first I thought only the damage value made no sense, but now the enchants make no sense to me either. Because 16.672 is not 73% of the max platinum (if max platinum crit dmg is 22.0990). It would be 22.8384.

    The ranges you're talking about are confusing me. Idk what they are ranges of.
  2. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    This ring should have 400 base dmg with 100% base o_O
  3. couda22

    couda22 Exceptional Talent

    Please stop treating the quality percentage as a percentage of maximum possible value. The quality percentage is no such thing (it would be if minimum possible value was ZERO, but minimum possible value of any base value / enchantment is always greater than zero). The percentage tells you how good the value is - 0% -> minimum possible value, 100% -> maximum possible value (for the given enchantment / base value of the given item, item tier, item level, item rarity).

    Let's have the above Dragan's ring. Critical damage enchantment - possible value for level 55 items is generated within following range:
    Min: 1.9183 (green ring, minimum possible value)
    Max: 22.0990 (pink ring, maximum "platinum" value)
    GenVal: 16.672

    q = 100* (GenVal - Min) / (Max - Min) = 100 * 14.7537 / 20.1807 = 73.1%

    Have you seen ZERO damage on any ring? No, you have not, so please do not do wrong calculations. The 25% quality means that the value is at 1/4 of the range of possible values. The range does not start at ZERO. Your calculation would be valid only for range of possible values 0 - 400. But the real range is different.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    Akageshi, _Baragain_ and Hetsunien like this.
  4. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Right, I get it now. Heh :D Thanks for your patience.

    So if a possible range for a base value is say [90,100] for an item and I drop a 94, it's a 40% quality.
    Same for enchantments, if the range is say [20%,50%] and I drop a 35%, it makes a 50% quality.

    So the implication of this is that you can only compare the quality of items at the same tier.
    Because... let's have an example:

    Item A, tier 1:
    Range: [50,90]
    GenVal: 70
    -> Quality: 50%

    Item B, tier 7:
    Range: [180,220]
    GenVal: 200
    -> Quality: 50%

    From this, if I get it right, the Quality is a number that serves to the player as means to determine how good the said item is within its tier. This is in case of base values.
    Ranges of enchantments are not affected by tier, only the drop rate is. So comparing qualities of enchantments on items of different tiers makes sense.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    TwiliShadow likes this.
  5. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Exactly. Now, if I get a T5 torso with 95% and 98% quality values for base HP/Armor, I can tell that it would be better than a hypothetical T8 torso with 92%/91% quality. Both would be double gold lines, but previously you have been hard pressed to tell which was better at a glance, especially with one item glyphed to 60 while the other is still 55.

    I have nothing but good things to say about this new system. Sure, some players will be confused like some of the people here in this thread, but the power players now have a tool to make their builds even better.
    Akageshi and TwiliShadow like this.
  6. couda22

    couda22 Exceptional Talent

    Actually, there are at least 2 exceptions - increased damage on:
    1) Mortis' Ring of Death
    2) Witch Seeker Pauldrons

    I'm not able to check how the quality percentage "works" for those items as I do not have them on test server.
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
    Akageshi and _Baragain_ like this.
  7. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Forum Veteran

    Ummmm... What???

    Try actually reading my post a few times. Then come back and edit yours into something understandable.
  8. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    People don't actually need to know how the Quality is calculated in order to understand that the higher the Quality %, the better the value, right?
    I imagine a lot of people will be confused, though, with for example a T7 and a T2 weapon, where the damage of the T2 will have a higher quality. It will be quite weird to them (like it was to me at first). But I don't want to underrate players' wits. In any case, It should be made apparent in the game somehow, what exactly the Quality represents...

    'Cause the thing is, you might get easily misled to for example thinking that Quality is a % of the entire range from tier 1 to tier 8, while in reality it's the range of the particular item's tier.

    Or you might think of the Quality the same way I did, that it's a % of the max possible value.​

    Now that I get how this new feature works, I agree with you absolutely, it's a great thing.

    Last edited: Apr 2, 2019
  9. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Yes I have
    Dude ... you are using BP language :p that is why people can't understand what you say.
    Use plain common every day simple terms . In example
    you could say " ... of the range of possible min and max values"
    ... there you go ... now even hamsters can understand you and no need to write wall of text to explain what you have previously said :p

    Now ... the ring comparison ...
    Seriously? Hold "MENU"?
    That key is so out of date and no one is using it since the time Moses received the 10 Commandments via email.
    It was used when there were no mice and the PCs had only a keyboard.
    On top of it ... it is not even working ... of course it is not working because it is the ALT key not MENU.
    Here ... I haven't changed anything in the settings ... it is by default.

    But dude ... Karabossa Doll is useful only for SWs .
    Imagine a group of rangers in example ... lets say 2 rangers. They don't need Karabossa pet.
    On top of it ... dolls' effects don't stack ... and I haven't even tested if they are working with Heredur Pet (probably not).

    It is not about having "1 more cut" ... it is about having completely different approach while creating your build. I see you still don't understand this ... you will have to try 1H build and think of "how to create your build" ... because 1H build is not 2H ... its approach is completely different.
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  10. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    I had 1h build long time before changing to 2h, no needed sapphires ty.
  11. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Thank you for pointing that out. Nobody knew that.

    I meant best combo as in a group where you have DK, SW, RA and SM so all inlcusive.

    In group without SW - Asar + Heredur (+Bloodmage if SM is using MGTs for some reason)
    In group without DK, RA, SM - Karabossa + Heredur
    In group where every class is present - Asar + Heredur + Karabossa (+Bloodmage if SM is using MGTs for some reason)

    Sorry for not speaking in

    Hope that's enough of that for you to understand.
    The oh almighty, alpha and omega of drakensang (also the one that was very keen to nitpick) doesnt know that? What a shame.

    Dolls effects do stack if these are different dolls.

    If you'd spent less time on forums trolling you'd knew that.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  12. Zoltan

    Zoltan Junior Expert

    Not buyng into discussion of which pets work best with each class. May want to edit post because you have just said same thing as traki while arguing against him. The effects of the dolls do not "stack". As both you, and Traki, say:

    They work "with" the other "different" dolls....

    Think you guys both saying same thing, just using different terminology
    trakilaki likes this.
  13. Alnasrawy

    Alnasrawy Forum Greenhorn

    Hi all . I dont know where should i post this one but here it is . Ask in r217 said some items of events can be used only in there event and that items are from essenc event . Saragon event and more . I guss some good stuff are coming back after all
  14. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    OK look here https://i.imgur.com/A6zyOnp.png - base stats- 100 dmg (25%) < -- total wrong % , if 100 is 25% of maximum stat , then top gold base dmg must be 400 . top DMG ring is mortis ring , but in t8 lvl60 dmg is ~200.
    Next - crit rate 99% & top hp 100% - correct.
    Enchants - correct .
    For reference - https://i.imgur.com/Js5svw2.png this ring with correct base dmg % , almost top gold lines enchant - old ~ 99-100% , but new 81-82% from top 100% platinum stat.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
  15. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Your inability to grasp this concept is making my head hurt.

    Imagine this. What is the minimum and maximum damage you can get on that ring. For the sake of argument that you can get 90 damage as the minimum and 130 is the maximum damage. That means that if you got a ring with 130 damage, it would say 100%, and if you got a ring with 90 damage, it would say 0% (or 1%, who knows). Now, because there is 40 damage between the min and the max, every 10 damage would be 25% of the range of damage on the ring.

    If it still isn't clear, read the table below:

    Damage% of the Range of Damage
    Now do you understand why 100 (25%) makes sense even though the max damage isn't 400? It is NOT the x% of the max value. It is x% of the range of values.

    Confirmed... it will say 0%
    Is it starting to make sense yet deliburan78?

    While I'm typing this, I should also mention that the x% of the range of values will not change when you augment it to a higher tier. The min value and max value will both go up, but something that is at 25% of the range will still be at 25% of the new range. Same thing happens when you glyph an item up. The min and max values for a stat go up as you put glyphs into an item, but the stat in question will still be at the 25% mark of the range.
    This is why this new tool is so awesome. It allows you to compare lines of different level and different tier items at a glance without having to augment the item or open the upgrade window.

    Here is a practical example of the comparison I was talking about above:
    Prior to this release, it would have been tough to gage if the T7 I got weeks after I augmented the one on the left to T8 was better or worse. Now, with the stat quality numbers, I can easily see that the one on the right is better on every base stat and would be a potential candidate for soul core crafting and then augmenting back to T8.
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2019
    Bubble, Hetsunien and Zoltan like this.
  16. 01simos01

    01simos01 Forum Greenhorn

    can anyone tell me the base values from all unique tier 8 please?
  17. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Look, here's the problem. The game does not tell you what those % values in brackets mean.
    It should do so, because clearly it's not self evident if it's taking whole forum pages for couda22 and _Baragain_ to explain it.

    This is what it looks like now, right?

    Well, that's absolutely not good enough.

    "(...) and shows a power level indicator behind enchantments and base values if they don't have fixed values."

    It should probably say something like this:

    "(...) and shows a power level indicator as a % value in brackets behind enchantments and base values if they don't have fixed values.

    The power level informs you about how good an item is compared to all possible iterations of the same item of the same tier and level.

    If the item (tier 1, level 55) can drop with a base or enchantment value raging between 20 and 60, and you get a 56, the power level indicator will say: '(90%)', because 56 is at 90% between 20 and 60.

    If the same item drops at a higher level or tier, the possible base values will be higher. It could be between 40 and 80. If you get a 56 again, the power level will say: '(40%)' now instead of 90%, because 56 is at 40% between 40 and 80."​
  18. deliburan78

    deliburan78 Advanced

    However my statement is true on item enchants . Bugpoint again successfully created a complete marmalade. Clap , clap , clap ...
  19. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    No it's not. I didn't get it right either, but it's the same thing for base values and enchantments, too.
    Just like base values, enchantments also drop as a value in between some minimum possible value and a maximum possible value.

    So you can get a ring with 110 dmg, that the game rolled from a possible range of idk, 80-120. 80 is minimum that the game treats as 0% quality, and 120 is max that the game treats as 100% quality. So your 110 is 75% quality.

    And same goes for enchants. You get a ring with say 20% increased crit rate enchantment that is rolled from a possible range of 10%-50%. 10% enchant would be treated as 0% quality, 50% as a 100% quality. Therefore your 20% increased crit rate is 25% quality.
  20. Dzungla

    Dzungla Forum Connoisseur

    Couldn't You check it on the workbench with just adding augment core & t8 ring which I believe you always have as a bckup!? :D

    It is useful add-on but I see too much calculations and theories for just info.

    Default view looks funny right now btw, no decimals etc.

    Now, here is something for all of you to have fun with:


    How old enchants fits in all these equations?
    trakilaki and TwiliShadow like this.
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