Feedback Release 186 - Hotfix

Discussion in 'Discussions on Current Topics' started by Sunlight, Mar 28, 2017.

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  1. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    Hmm, I find myself in the unenviable position of disagreeing with a Guru :eek:
    Using the method I described that 249 CHR line ends up at 388 instead of 412. Maybe I'm just not enough of a perfectionist so I consider this difference negligible (and yeah, I have also considered +%CHR modifies in my thinking.) I can still get back my 75% CHR I had before 185 doing this. So the advantage some pre-patch player has is still their 80% vs. my 75% which is the same as it ever was.

    As for the damage line... Ranger here... no unique crafting available :p Also the damage line is nothing compared to the players that will be spending cashey money on Royal Qaizah Rubies (or refiners for their old royal rubies.) I kinda feel that those damage lines may no longer be the line to have anyway with the new rubies (will have to wait for the other Guru... the maths one... to run the numbers on that.)

    It's all a matter of perspective I guess (which includes that fact that I play on ghost town Tegan so there are proportionately fewer of these pre-patch items here.)

    I do agree though that if anything is done to nerf/revert these the players involved should get back every single resource that went into them.

    Still I consider it a distraction more than anything right now. The devs have many more unresolved issues to deal with (reworking event items and big sapphires to name just two of many.) I see this as a 'set-up'. They players hand the devs a something must be done resolution. Then they have the perfect excuse to ignore all the other problems of late.

    Anyway, I've trolled this thread enough I think... moving on :)

    Luck be with ye,
    Mikey,
    Tegan
     
  2. Evil

    Evil Forum Apprentice

    This.

    I still get impressed on the the lack of common sense from this company.
    Is just sad..

    Again the same mistake from the past?!

    Again we need to wait 1 or 2 more years for all players to have equal OPPORTUNITY? ( Because of your lack of common sense?)

    I'm a 5+ years loyal Payer and Player. I assure you I will not wait for your mistake to fade away as you did with low lvl Grimmagstone items.

    If you don't fix your mistake I will leave this game for good!
    Period!

    PS: What a joke...
     
  3. Alex_Thor

    Alex_Thor Advanced

    Best solution is: Should scale the enchants of one item if the lvl of this item is within +/- 10 lvls of the item with the highest lvl on the worbench.
     
    Zed likes this.
  4. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    I disagree. As Traki has pointed out, if you transfer craft an item level 50 into a unique 55, you get level 50 stats on a level 55 item meaning that you can only upgrade it 5 levels instead of 10. Saying that this was a fundamental mechanic of C 2.0 is ridiculous.
     
  5. MikeyMetro

    MikeyMetro Forum Overlooker

    Lolz, ok, one more post then moving on :cool:
    Try actually reading my posts. I never said do unique crafting with a lvl 50 item. The old items need to be leveled up first to 54 using the
    then transfer these to a lvl 55 unique and then upgrade that to lvl 60.

    See I actually read your post where you suggested
    To which I replied
    Which is absolutely true. (At least until the devs decide this is also unintended and they scrap crafting 2.0 altogether since it does not fit their Grand Vision... or lack thereof.)

    Now Traki is right. These items are not as good as the pre-patch item. The CHR example I posted is only 94.17% as good.

    Now to the others in this thread that have equated this to the old Darbmoor/G-Stone gear it's not even close to the same thing. Those items had around a 30% advantage. Huge difference.

    But hey, if y'all want to give the devs an excuse to put a hold on other things to spank the players who made these marginally bugged items... even the ones that did this even before it was announced it was bug... so be it.

    Luck be with ye,
    Mikey,
    Tegan
     
  6. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Ok, I have not experimented with the system as I don't have a test server account.

    I said,
    2. Use unique transfer crafting with a level 55 unique to get a unique 54 item with 54 stats

    So, are you saying that this is now happening? If this is true, then I have no complain.
    Also, remember this was not possible with Crafting 2.0.
    There was no unique transfer crafting back then.
     
  7. Mesala

    Mesala Advanced

    Enchantments should not scale, period.
    It enables older players to have an edge over new players.
    We all know its the rings, belt, amulet because old items give critical hit rate, new ones do not, unless you go for unique rings that now have critical.

    The problem is that old items are gonna be crafted with new uniques so you end up with mortis rings with base 800 crit and extra miniminum 800 crit (scaled version is probably 1.1k) if you have 4x crit rate enchantments.

    And I can understand why people complain, but come on, where is a new player gonna get 1600-2000 crit rate ring lol. Be glad that you can craft old ring with unique ring at all, its still a big advantage over someone new.

    So imagine a possibility that you have that much critical hit rate that enables you to use legacy sapphires on the adornment instead of onyxes. Tsk tsk tsk no no, no can do.

    Be fair to new players that are trying to achieve something instead of getting splattered in arena.

    Same goes for HP, resistance, armor, again, not fair to the new players, we all need to be in the same coffin together.
     
  8. Alex_Thor

    Alex_Thor Advanced

    forget arena, you must think how difficult is mode 3, 4 PW for mages and archers, need very high stats for that mods
     
  9. Falk101

    Falk101 Junior Expert

    For me the best would be to let players craft old legs from lvl50 with scalling enchantments and to let old players to take advantage of their work because if they have good legs, they desserve and it's normal old players have some advantages, it's like that in many games.
     
  10. alchimista

    alchimista Forum Pro

    Accordingly :
    I have never had the possibility to test the new legendary/unique crafting.

    I have few questions :
    1) Is it possible to craft lvl 10+ legendary ( under 50 ) items with LVL IV unique ? ( I mean blank items with no I II III IV feature over it )
    1.2) Is the problem only directly connected to 50+ items value?
    2) While crafting items we used to have no upgrade in the "%" item value. Are the "%" value growing/balance with the crafting upgrade ?

    Until R185 we used to craft & level up unique items and have it balanced to the max lvl item in workbench. Right ?
    I mean :
    1x magotina cape LVL I 45 +
    1x magotina cape LVL I 47 +
    1x magotina cape LVL I 46 +
    1x magotina cape LVL I 50 =
    1x magotina cape LVL II 50, right ?

    Same as R185 unique/legendary crafting release.

    So,
    Is the new feature a question about the glyph required to craft ? I mean : after r186 fix can I still craft legendary/unique items but NOW are required tons of bilions of glyph to update my item to lvl 55 to be able to achieve the same result ?

    In case of an affermative answer at question 2), YES! NERF THEM BACK
    Is it just a question of glyph ? NO, DO NOT NERF THEM BACK
     
  11. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Still your position is the correct one.

    I'll try to explain it in a simpler way so ppl can see the actual picture:
    NOW you can STILL craft OLD legs with fixed stats ONTO NEW unique, but their max values will be capped @ lvl 54 instead of lvl 55.
    This will cost A LOT because to do it you have to craft your old legs/exo lvl 49 and above with junks lvl 55 in the 3rd/4th slots on the benchwork.

    So the differences are:
    - pre-patch you could save a LOT of gold simply crafting low lvl items farmed in low lvl maps (lvl 10-15 items with gold lines) and upgrade em for no cost to lvl 55 with pristin core transfer
    - post- patch the max lvl you can upgrade an item with fixed stats is lvl 54, you will have to farm in lvl 49 maps (otherwise the crafting process to upgrade the item must be done multiple time costing even more) and you will have to use lvl 55 junk resulting in an higher crafting cost.

    This is basically the advantage ppl abused pre-fix:
    - can transfer lvl 55 fixed stats (while post patch the max is lvl 54)
    - have saved A LOT of cash
    - didn't have to farm in lvl 49 maps (if they have ever farmed anything and not used items crafted before r185)

    The difference in actual values is minimal as Mikey said; the difference in gold is high (IMHO), the difference in praticability is HUGE (IMHO).

    If you want bring back EVERYONE to the same starting point: ask for a rollback (not to fix the values)
    If you want to leave thing as they are because the differences are neglectable: let things stay as they are.

    If they WON'T do a rollback, I'd prefer to leave things as they are because it's not fair to punish players for using a feature that up to 1 week ago wasn't even cosidered a bug and became a bug as soon as they found out it had flaws in it.
    I was myself someone that was SPONSORING this attitude as soon as I saw the first video in which it was described the pristine core transfer.

    This is correct, I've compared the stats you can get with the % dmg on mortis ring and the ones you could get with flat dmg enchants.
    They are basically on pair, the only difference it's the first works better WITHOUT ESS and the latter works better WITH ESS (and they must be nearly perfect stats).
    For that cost I don't consider that transfer worth it.
     
    MikeyMetro likes this.
  12. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    I know that many players has transffer the enchantments but the diferences are seen in arena when one have 70% crit and the other one just 50% or so, also that flat dmg enchants will scale much better with % dmg form items and set bonuses in future.

    I have seen many of you old players make comparation at your level but there is many new players in game and they want faire sistem form BP.

    The exploit must be reroled or let him be for everyone is so simple.No more grimag like jus for few players.
    Please equality in chances or many will be upset.
     
    -Skygazer- likes this.
  13. Sunlight

    Sunlight User

    Dear heroes of Dracania,


    Thank you all very much for your feedback, it showed the DSO team the importance of balancing the affected items. We are now assessing a variety of options for solving this issue as efficiently and reliably as possible.

    Your Drakensang Online Team
     
    Mal3ficent likes this.
  14. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    That is because you are not getting the big picture. :p
    1. You are taking into consideration only the crit hit lines ... which BTW are higher if you already have them into unique items "pre-patch". Also take into consideration that more than one unique item is crafted and you can wider the gap.
    However ... no one ever said there won't be "increased crit hit on this item " runes in the future .... now with that in mind the gap is getting even higher.
    2. Damage. I only took the damage line in the weapon as an example because I have no item with damage line in other item so I can present it ...
    Now ... consider a leg amulet with 4x damage lines transferred into i.e. Arachna's amulet. Pre-patch the values can be higher than now ... so actually you are having items with at least 1 upgrade per line in advantage over the other ones. Now lets assume the total damage difference per item is 20. With 20 more damage you can more than 200 damage in the overall base damage. HOWEVER ... include the rune of vigor in the amulet. 5x Supreme runes is giving 200% more damage in the amulet. Now that 20 damage advantage turns into 60 damage advantage ... and the total base damage difference is now HUGE (over 600 more base damage).
    And don't forget we are talking about level 54 item transferred into unique item after the patch. But that is only if you already have legendary item crafted pre-patch. What if you are crafting exo to leg? In that case you will get level 52-53 item ... and in order to take it to higher level you should do multiple crafting ... and spending HUGE amount of resources and time. Which is unnecessary.
    Mikey you are talking about Crafting 2.0 ... but after R185 the crafting has been changed to crafting 2.0 nefed edition ... I will cover this later in this post. ;)
    3. HP. Take into consideration HP lines instead of damage lines ... and 5x Supreme Rune of Vitality. The example is same as ^ with the damage example.

    First ... those items are not bugged at all. The process of crafting was working as it should. Enchantments were scaling to the items' level. Nothing bugged there. It is the same now after the patch ... with all items except unique items. When you craft level 50 item with level 55 items you can get level 53 item and the enchantments are scaling to items' level. You see no bug there. The problem is the devs forgot to put limitation for items lower level than 50.

    That is not true!
    You can still farm rings and weapon adornments with crit lines in -50 maps (cradle of life, death, nahuatlan... etc) And not just crit lines ... all items there are pre-R185 ... with old enchantments.
    That is what I was referring to when I said
    In ^ that thread.

    Now about the changes in the basic crafting system after R185:

    The crafting has been changed ... now all enchantments from the higher level items are scaling down when transferred into lower level item. This used to work only with absolute enchantments ... but now it has been changed to relative enchantments as well.
    All % enchantments (crit damage, attack speed, weapon damage, % damage, % armor, travel speed ... etc) are scaling down when transferred on lower level item . But in same time they DO NOT scale up when transferred from lower level item into higher level item. So it is working only in one direction ...not in the both. What a joke.

    I will give you examples.

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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
  15. Nostradamus88

    Nostradamus88 Active Author

    Sincerely I don't see any problem. If you look for number bonuses with this new game, you are making a mistake. Now the game lays on different stats where %bonuses are the ones to look for. You can do as Mikey says and achieve a 54 leg but it is too long. Or you can do as trakilaki says and stay firm at pre185 game, according to me. The game now is different. So start again looking for high %gold bonuses and craft them. This is my opinion
     
  16. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Scaling down of relative enchantments to lower percentage values certainly looks like a bug or a display bug to me.
     
  17. Arx_X

    Arx_X Advanced

    right on point. One would think they would have the decency to leave all % be (value wise). I can somehow understand that they don't want us crafting gold line +15 dmg lvl 12 items with lvl 55 "junk" and end up with lvl 55 items having the gold line +40 , but changing the % is like saying " don't bother crafting , unless you use all 55 items, or you'll end up with the same stats as you used before the craft...if you're lucky"
     
    trakilaki likes this.
  18. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    If it is possible, reverse the transfer; return items to the player. If not, leave as it is but add amount glyphs minused to the account.
    e.g. if item takes 450M to level up to level 60 then simply add -450M glpyhs in the account. That should be fair I think.
     
  19. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Dude ... Seriously?
    You can do a basic math and see that the things are not like you think.
    example 1:
    amulet with 4x %damage on this item enchantments
    lets say each enchantment has a 60% damage on this item value ... and 50 damage base stat. And 5x 40% % damage on this item runes.
    that is 50(240%+200%) = 270 damage

    example 2:
    amulet with 4x 50 damage enchantments and 50 base damage. and 4x 40% damage on this item runes.
    that is 250+200% = 750 damage

    So which one is better?

    This is the simple math for one item ... I will leave the whole impact on the total base damage to Baragain ... as i have no time for calculations.
     
    _Baragain_, Novadude and sebastian_fl like this.
  20. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    I dont think that is a solution, they should nerf the value of enchantments to the maximum value of the enchantment for level 50.
    Example
    If the dmg line is white and the max white value can be 29 because after that it became yelow then they should give the max white value of that enchamtment.
    If it is a yelow line then i think it is 35 max value at 50 and they shoul get that value.
    Is not necesary to search from logs what item and what value was.

    If the players are faire they dont mind that, if they wanted to exploit that they wont like that but they need to be like everyone.

    Anyway i think that was not a bug, it was intended but get a wrong turn.

    PS I did not think about levels below the lv 55 my mistake.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2017
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