Feedback Release 216

Discussion in 'Discussions on Current Topics' started by Mal3ficent, Mar 13, 2019.

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  1. Dемои

    Dемои Forum Pro

    If tank doesn't need dmgers, delete 2h for tanks. This is the same. Tank is for tanking, mage for make dmg ok? Tank only for handle boss with shield, mage just make dmg without tanking with guardian.
    What is wrong about you? Mage have guardian for play solo and with group without tank. Who can handle boss on inf4 if you don't have tank? Only mage with group skill meteor. Why you don't write about dwarfs? They can put turrets and run in turret arena and they don't need touch bosses beacouse turrets kill boss easy.
  2. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    A mage can perfectly play solo and kill any boss in any difficulty without needing a guardian, you just need to move.
    What is debated are the totally unnecessary and nonsensical changes to the abilities of the mages, enhancing him excessively over the other classes, allowing him to play with concrete luxuries as permanent abilities thanks to the absurd recharge time, among other things.
    All classes can do solo bosses on Inf4, the difference is mages have a personal tank in the abilities while other classes kill the boss moving around to dodge the basic attacks of the boss (not talking of the spells like frozen floor in Q3 because it affects to all, not just to mages as it seems to others here "Oh, poor mages they need to move to dodge the frozen floor" xD).
    And the problem is not that they have a guardian, but that they have it permanently profiting bugs that devs mantain in the game on purpose.
    You will see in YT videos of mages doing solo mortis Inf3/4 having permanently the guardian tanking.
    I can solo mortis Inf3/4 and I'm not mage or war but I need to move, dodge, etc. Big difference.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  3. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro


    Why are you so salty over MC and Singu combo now which was a thing for over 5 years already?

    Singu got 5pts talent changed with balor expansion 3,5 years ago and was used to chain cast abilities since then.
    What's up with your salt now?

    Change to MC was not only unnecessary but unreasonable - thank God they noticed but MC is now messed up (some npcs are still completely immune to it for example Raazghul from A1).


    This is the original MC description. It clearly says "directly after using mind control on your enemies". No word about having a foe under MC or successful MC.
    It (description) was changed with R155 but not the mechanic which leads to conclusion it was not only changed without a real reason (they like changing stuff just for the sake of change) but it was worded awfully:


    "When you have a foe under Mind Control, for 1 second none of your skills will have a cooldown."

    And you have foe under Mind Control for 8 seconds so:

    "For 8 seconds, for 1 second none of your skills will have a cooldown."

    Like, what? But you can clearly see the origins of this god awful description.

    Directly after using Mind Control on your enemies --> When you have a foe under Mind Control
    for 1 second --> for 1 second
    You can use all your skills without activating their cooldown times --> none of your skills will have a cooldown.

    But that's not a point. Description was changed, mechanics werent - for a reason.

    Last description introduced with R209 is worded better but it doubles-down on a description bug.


    As you can see it should never say "Per successful mind control of an enemy".
    It should say "Per successful mind control cast".

    Fixing the singu bug is a buff, yes, but it wouldnt be necessary when astral phenomenon would be left alone without devs rummaging. Also mages were almost on the end of boss-killing "food-chain" for a long time. The only reason why mages are still relevant on bosses is due to mana tonics and physics.

    Mages on PvP on the other hand are just moving training dummies - quite literally (please dont continue this part, Im in no position to speak about PvP. Just wanted to mention that cause they rolled out MC changes on PvP and even I - casual PvP player - can notice the consequences of this change without playing PvP).

    Also, not only you cant have permanent guardian ALONE (in party it's possible due to magma shield) it dies while being hit once or twice on majority of bosses on higher difficulties (it will live longer on khalys and m'edusa cause they have lower damage so two or three hits may be possible). What happens on painful is none of my business but I can imagine having perma guardian there due to low damage of bosses.

    I have 80k hp and 2 and 3 pts talents active.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    Zardast, ΣMiwel, stasis and 2 others like this.
  4. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    That's what you want to appear in the description for your own benefit, but in all the descriptions it says the same and it means mind controlling an enemy not just typing in the air calling the gods to choose a random enemy to be marked, and bosses can't be mind controlled.
    If we take a look to old versions of abilities ranger's EA should work differently, for example, as many others.
    Is pointless to put images of past times so you can justify your desire to have something concrete, we are not living in the past.
    Even the devs said it is a bug, but they said that they will fix it at "the correct time".
    A way of saying: "We don't want children with torches in the forum now".
    While they say is not the correct time to do changes in classes (only to avoid complaints with MC) they do not mind going against that same word to change other classes or improve mages ones, it is contradictory.
    Is not the time for changes or is not the time only for harmful changes in mages?
  5. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    You ignored almost entirety of my post and picked ONE LINE just to counter argument me.
    I made plenty of arguments why change of description (ONLY, NOT MECHANICS FOR PAST 5,5 YEARS) was a bug in the first place and you nimbly dodged that.

    There may be plenty of reasons why they thought about it as a bug. The topic is still fresh and relevant and devs may enlighten us with more details about it sooner or later.

    Im positive they thought it was a bug due to 3,5 years old description bug (which is as long as singularity was "bugged") and it could've been introduced by people who arent working there anymore.

    Have you seen ANYBODY complaining about singularity not working on itself for past 3,5 years BEFORE change of MC? No. That's because it's irrelevant. You could chain-cast with MC alone.
    There's a difference between changing mechanics and changing descriptions without changing mechanics.

    Also, EA was meant to be changed (they clearly stated that they removed explsion on terrain collision on purpose) and MC werent (they simply changed the description and didnt even mentioned any changes in MC 5 pts talent). Traki pushing his "MC is a bug" agenda surely had his hand in this.
    Mind control is working (almost, due to their rummaging in its code) as it was on day 0 and you are the one upset about it.

    Yet you seem like the one who cant move on.
    And devs said that they will leave Circus doors open after event. Check TS if that's correct.
    They said they will implement guild pvp in 2013.
    They said they will implement Cardhun expansion in 2018.
    They said they will implement Mortis set, quest and chest long time ago as "soon".

    Things are much more liquid in game developent than you think.
    The improvement you're mentioning is literally not existing if MC is working as it meant on day 0.

    MC mechanic is a bug, sure. Let's ignore the fact it was working like that (with a proper, well worded, fitting skill description) since day 0 till they introduced that god awful description from R155 3,5 years ago


    Singu bug is just a description bug. Just fix description and ta-DAAAAA! done

    Either both are description bugs or both are mechanic bugs. Pick one and pick wisely.

    The thing is, youre blinded with hate. There's no point in discussing things with somebody like that.
    For me the discussion is over.
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
    Zardast, ΣMiwel, silverward and 2 others like this.
  6. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    All rants and off topic posts will be deleted immediately.
    Please read the instructions in the opening post.

    Shine2 and heror like this.
  7. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    EDIT: I meant to type about the issues with Singularity in PvP vs DKs. I had Mind Control on the brain after reading the above.

    So, Feedback about the changes to Singularity in PvP… It's stupidly OP Broken against DKs.

    DKs have to get up close, so when you have SWs who use and stay in their Singularity 100% of the time, the DK gets slaughtered while trying to kill the SW. The SW's stun breaks cool down fast, allowing them to have 4+ stun breaks every 10 seconds (half of which include a counter stun), and with Singularity now being cooled down by Singularity, they keep is up 100% of the time. If a DK can't kill the SW in the 8 seconds of Dragon Hide, the DK is unlikely to kill the SW. In the past, when the skill made sense and they could only use Singularity 10 out of every 30 seconds, so it was rather balanced. Not too many people used it for it's cool down talent because it was more useful as an armor break/AoE denial skill. Now, it is the single most broken PvP skill in the game (when vs a DK), maybe tied with the SM regen. Sure, this skill is useless against the other ranged classes because that makes the SW a sitting duck, but DKs need to be significantly stronger than a SW to stand a chance.

    So, Feedback... Change the skill back to what made sense! There was absolutely no reason to change this skill. It was not "bugged" no matter what some crybabies said. It was balanced and simply needed a more descriptive description. Now, fix your "fix!"
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
    cdeepal and 66Styve66 like this.
  8. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    I could't have said this better myself. This is not a fix. You broke this skill and gave SW super powers.
    _Baragain_ likes this.
  9. shovan

    shovan Forum Apprentice

    The main point of gearless pvp is good players can showcase their skills. Now for mages its actually all about mindcontroll and use it to perfection. Now after removing it in pvp does not make any sense as mages for me are useless without it. It may be too op vs dks but absolut useless vs rangers and especially dwarfs. Its now blind shooting with the hope they will hit something...... BP is pvp going in this direction???
  10. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Let me type for you the original description:
    The original description says "using". So, are you trying to say that using mind control on enemy means that it has to be successful? When I use something on something (or on somebody), it doesn't mean I achieved success. I can use a knife on a metal can, does it mean that I opened the can with the knife? Nope. The same goes here.
    That was how the skill was intended to be used in the first place, before they screwed up all the descriptions.

    The original thread on the singu was, as I stated there (maybe not clearly enough), intended to fight the double standards.
    Either we're fixing both descriptions or we're "fixing" both skills. They decided to go for the second way. They always go for the roundabout way that brings more screwup.

    Maybe think a bit about it from a perspective other than that of DK before calling everyone who doesn't agree with you on any topic (save for Traki, who agrees with you on this topic anyways) a "crybaby".

    The problem is that a gearless PvP is never good. The PvP has to take into account both skills of the player and his effort put into the character development. The current PvP takes into account none of these. Efforts virtually don't matter, except for glyphes. Finding high-tier items with values good enough for the PvP takes one carry in Inf4. Gems, runes, crafts, essentially almost nothing from what players farm for matters. Skills don't matter as well. The PvP is all about arena exploits.

    I don't know what kind of bugs were added by the recent update, but sometimes I can fight a whole group fight (especially Storm the Fortress... no idea why it happens so often there) and not deal a single crit to opponents (despite having 20% crit rate with my crap frankenstein pvp build for daily clovers), and not get a single hit directed at me blocked (despite having 80% block rate from a high tier orb and dragan's pauldrons).
  11. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Sorry, I typed mind control... I meant to say "Singularity Cool Down." Fixed it so there will be fewer misunderstandings. MC isn't brokenly powerful, least of all in PvP... Singularity's self cool down is. I may have mistyped in a couple places, but if you read it, I'd have assumed you could have figured out I meant Singularity.

    Try rereading the post now that I've edited it to mean what I meant. Singularity is super OP against DKs in PvP, especially in 1v1.

    I am thinking about it from other perspectives. Unfortunately, this is a change that only negatively affects DKs while making SW's OP against DKs, especially in 1v1. So, the 1v1 perspectives are:

    SM: Doesn't negatively impact me. If a SW uses Singularity and tries to sit in the Singularity to cool down their Singularity and other skills, I'll just drop a Tesla Turret (which can't be destroyed BTW) and make them regret trying to stay in their Singularity.

    RA: Doesn't negatively impact me. If the SW sits in their Singularity, that makes them a sitting duck for my bird, net, EA, ETC.

    Other SWs: Doesn't negatively impact me. If they are sitting in their singularity, I can drop my own on top of them and kill them from a distance.

    DK: HOLY CRAP! I can't get close to them without getting armor broken! I can try to stun them with Groundbreaker and Charge, but they will just break the stun and hit me while I try to hit them... difference is, I'm armor broken! Oh, and when they break the stun with Frost Nova, I'm stunned in return, giving them a bunch of free hits. Well, maybe I can get them to waste their only two stun breaks with Charge/Ground breaker, and then stun them with Headbutt... but DAMN... their next stun break will be cooled down in seconds because they are still sitting inside of the Singularity. I can always try to approach them while I have Dragon Hide up, but then they just run away for 8 seconds before casting their Singularity again. Well, @#$% it... They are unkillable. Maybe I should just take off all my armor and end it faster and get matched up against someone I stand a chance against.

    So now, if you understand my complaint and the problem, what would you do as a DK? It's your turn to think about it from a DK's perspective and tell me how 100% uptime of singularity is fair in PvP, especially in 1v1. How would you fight a SW who uses these tactics if you were a DK?

    I stand by my comments on the changes to Singularity. A bunch of cry babies who have no understaning of the word "balance" advocated a change, and the developer team, who also have no understanding of the word "balance," listened.

    Finally, let me reiterate so there is no misunderstanding, I'm fine with how Mind Control used to be. It made sense to me, and has actually been a topic that Trakilaki and I have disagreed on several times in the past.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  12. Dzungla

    Dzungla Forum Expert

    I'm playing chess with SW i n 1v1! (same as in other arenas).

    Always keep anti-stun & escape skill ready (fbc+jump/charge), let them to lift up your rage (for example evade sphere but let the ice missile to hit you) so you have ready skills and smash them with your broken armor when d. hide active.

    We can't change anything on live servers, it is what it is, SM will run and steam heal all the time, arenas will be full of vortexes etc. and all we can do is to adapt to it!

    btw - too large posts make this discussion almost private ;)
  13. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    Now read the present description.
    The topic here is R216, doesn't make sense to talk about how something was descripted years ago in past releases, it was changed to avoid misunderstandings and you are still stuck in the past for convenience.

    About the MS Bearach event:
    The players who finished it in the first hours have double rewards, the event and the codes.
    Devs prefer to do this instead of correcting the error? ...
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
  14. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    I personally don't care about the double rewards. You'll just have to live with this.
  15. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    The point is that we should not get to this situation if the workers were as competent as they should be.
    I wonder how much money some players have invested (luckily I do not include myself) in this game so that in return they receive such unprofessional maintenance.
    If you think about it, it is quite the money that seems not to get where it should, this morning they were drinking coffee while ignoring the failures and giving codes showing its low value as professionals.

    IKILLGIANTS Active Author

    Since you dont put money in the game why do you care??? Im sick of people who brag about "not putting money in the game" and have an opinion about a matter of fact,the way the devs solved the issue with the bonus code was very professional,this way the rest of the events will go as planned
  17. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    I have an opinion about what's going on in the game because I'm a player of the game :/
    Solving the problem with efficacy and letting players earn the rewards by themselves doing the event is not excluding that the rest of the events going as planned.
    I though forum was not only for payers, maybe I'm wrong and the opinion of many players don't count.

    IKILLGIANTS Active Author

    you have an opinion on how players who spend money in game should feel or think!! everyone is welcome here,but you are a troll..."you have no power here" :)
    heror likes this.
  19. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Aw ... #PropagandaWatch ... you are fully suitable as a MSM journalist. You could be the next self-proclaimed president of BigPoint :)
    Spellweaver's Intelligence Agency is supporting you 100%.
    As for my explanations you can read the past posts as I have confirmed (so and the devs) ... it is a bug and you can do nothing about it even when spreading false information. :eek:

    You infidel ! :D ... they made you bend over with false propaganda :D
    We have disagreed on many topics ... but NOT on this one :)

    Save for trakilaki ... but trakilaki won't spare you from the public crucifixion :p
    Lets begin ...
    I am so laughing laud on a failed attempt to provide description :)
    1. that is not Mind Control description ... it is a description of Experience Tree Talent "Astral Phenomenon".
    2. The Mind Control description was stating:
    So now we know what is the skill's description and we also know, it precisely determines the enemy ... it is the bloody monster not the player.
    Astral Phenomenon is just a talent ... or in other words upgrade to the existing skill. The description is precise as you already noted ... it is the "Enemy" ... but the enemy is already described in the skill's description and it is the monster. So no need to mention monsters in the talent's description as it is already in the description of the skill ... which is the core ... the skill is the base on how a skill works not the talent ... so no need to put anything else in the talent's description but "enemy".
    the very fact that Astral Phenomenon was an Experience Tree talent by itself shows it is meant to be working with monsters and PvE.

    It was never meant to be working on players to begin with ... the second bug was the Explosion after the player dies.
    First of all how can you mind control a player? If you mind control a player your skill is useless as you will never be able to deal damage to that player as the player is part of your team :)
    Second ... the player was not getting 200% increased damage but was exploding nevertheless.

    Now what you intentionally forget is the fact that at that time all trees were having talents on left or the right side of the tree ... and players could select only one of them at each point. You could upgrade only one skill at time but never both of them.

    The Fame Tree was the PvP tree related to arena and players ... even if some of the talents were working in PvE.

    Now ... with level 50 these trees were changed and many skills and talents were changed. Many talents got part of the default Skill's Talents. So many of the talents were changed and some were completely removed.
    Regarding these changes ... when it comes to arena ... the Rangers became sore losers as a product of those changes.
    Here is why:
    We know the Mind Control was bugged ... but lets just pretend it was intentional way to play it in the arena.
    Before level 50 and Lor'Tac expansion the effect of this bugged skill had no big impact or it had little impact on PvP.
    Because the players had Fame Tree talents like Determination.
    Determination - After you've been stunned, you will be immune from all enemy stunning buffs for 4,0 seconds.

    Also the players had other talents for all classes that can counter the bugged Mind Control. DKs could heal and stay immune ... rangers could run faster ... midgets could spawn extra turrets etc etc ...
    BUT ... Rangers lost the most of all classes because of the removal of Survival's Instinct Immunity ... and other classes kept their talents as skill talents.
    Survival Instinct - If your life force falls below 33%, your survival instinct skill will activate an adrenaline rush that will replenish your concentration and increase your travel speed by 50% for 5,0 seconds. In addition, you will have 4,0 second immunity against enemy stun effects.

    With both Determination and Survival Instinct removal ... and continuing Mind Control bug ... the game has already started to get unbalanced. Before level 50 the bug ... like i said earlier ... couldn't do any bigger disbalance as the rangers and the other classes had immunity (rangers 2x immunity) ... but with the removal of these talents, the Mind Control bug already started to make much difference ... where SWs always could use their antistun skills first and always have extra antistun skill at the end.

    So yeah that is about the bug.
    Now let me point you out something else ... as you was the one who started the other thread in the Creative corner about the Singularity's Cooldown.
    It was never a bug ... that means the devs created a new bug intentionally, and left another confirmed bug active (MC).
    Let us compare Mind Control and Singularity ... I will use your words.
    Mind Control - Astral Phenomenon:
    Singularity - Synchronicity:
    So we can read that both descriptions say "All Skills".
    Now ... does Mind Control work on itself?
    The answer is "No it doesn't work on itself".
    If Mind Control was working on itself it would have been triple bugged skill. You can use all your skills without cooldown for 1 second ... but you can't use the Mind Control itself as its cooldown is not affected by the talent.
    If the talent was working on MC ... you could use Mind Control forever without activating cooldown ... use MC and use any skill then MC again over and over and over and over ..... again. But the MC's Skill is not affected by its own talent.
    That is how Singularity also works.
    Its talent can work on all other skills BUT never on itself.

    And that is why now SWs have one intentionally unfixed bugged skill and another one intentionally bugged (while it wasn't previously bugged).
    There you go ... you now have proof for the bug(s) ... besides ... the devs confirmed the MC's bug long time ago (they read everything on forums ... I can't lie).

    I see a lot of palyers saying "SWs are OP and are dealing too much damage in the arena".
    Lets forget about MC and ^ all about MC and Singularity ^ previously said ^ ...
    Well that is true ... SWs deal too much damage ... but are they OP and broken?
    The answer is NO.
    So "how could it be they are dealing too much damage but they are not OP?" ... one would ask.
    It is very simple and straightforward ... it is not the SWs who are broken but the entire new system and the gearless arena are broken.
    It is natural for SWs to have more damage ... and lets not forget most of their damage skills are having elemental damage.
    In the past players could counter the elemental damage by equipping DIAMONDS and item bonuses (not buffs) ... but with the gearless arena all players are having slightly over 50% resistance even with all 25 PvP points spent on defense. Those players who have less points invested in defense are getting even more damage because of the lower resistance.
    If a SW has around 3K base damage ... that is double when hitting critical ... just imagine what the Frozen Sphere can do with that damage . It can take out all of your HPs in seconds ... because of inability to regulate the Resistance without Diamonds.
    The armor can be get from most of the items and it can go high ... so the players would not have such issues with skills that are dealing Physical Damage.

    Gearless arena and skills?
    That is utopia.
    There are no skills involved with gearless arena ... especially under these conditions AND this time when players are using macros, scripts, programmable mice and keyboards, cheats, hacks, bugs, exploits and external cheating applications.
    This arena is the worst arena ever ... everyone is playing only if having clover from daily. Even then they just go without gear and die so they can get the arena off their back quickly.
    The current arena is neither fun nor pleasant experience for fair players. It is unplayable , broken, boring and frustrating.
    All that say otherwise are cheating in any way ... so they like to have advantage from scripts, macros and cheating.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2019
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  20. JEKAJE

    JEKAJE Junior Expert

    Ok I don't wanna start any fights, but the description states that you can have a monster under your control, but without defining it as an enemy, the enemy or even the only enemy it should work with. And the other description states that you can benefit from the skill after using it on enemies, while it doesn't define the enemies. I mean, you can understand it your way as you described above, but I understand it as it is stated and therefore I don't see anything wrong with the skill description.
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