Feedback Release 218

Discussion in 'Discussions on Current Topics' started by teddy.bear, Apr 29, 2019.

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  1. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    In fact, I'm playing both a ranger and a mage and I'm trying to keep both at a decent level.
    Generally, I see what is happening on one char, what's happening on another, and I am pretty sure that not rangers nor mages are op...

    I tried to prove that mages don't really have higher damage, they have only slightly higher range (which has to be fixed).
    And no, mages don't have normally more HP than rangers.

    If Traki says that he has all the max stats on items... the mage can't have any higher. In fact mage can only have (10/11)*RA's maxHP, at most... because ranger has 1,1x base (mage and dwarf have 1,0x base, DK has 1,3x base).

    Or... there are some items that I am not aware of that have bugged base stats for mage (like it's the case for DK's new moon weapons).
    Or simply Traki is using Dragan's Pauldrons... which I doubt he needs.
    menestrelul likes this.
  2. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    Ranger has more life than Mage, but 10% makes no difference. This is the point.

    Ice missile is better:

    75% (50% elemental reduction) = 37% damage.

    War 100% (70% reduction) = 30% damage. Bleeding effects do not stack, but ice missile gets 25% more damage, with talent.
    Ice Missile is a ranged attack and reduces movement 50% and 15% attack (50% ...)

    Mage vs Ranger:

    - Better resource regeneration;
    - Better damage;
    - Better stunning;
    - Better evocation;
    - Singularity (OP after change, especially against war).

    Ranger has only better mobility. Not bad!
  3. piteris2

    piteris2 Regular

    Mages also have much easier aiming, much larger attack radius with some abilities (fireball, frozen sphere, etc.), better crowd control, their guardian is way better then the ranger’s bird or wolves. Mages have overall only decent and usable abilities unlike rangers who have only one good melee ability, one usable stunning ability, and abilities that cost more concentration than similar abilities that mages have (EA compared to FS)...
  4. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    This is my honest opinion playing as a DK.

    In the current state of PvP, it seems to me between a DK and a Mage, the Mage is about 100% over powered than a DK.
    Between a DK and a Ranger, the DK is about 20% over powered than a Ranger.
    Between a DK and a Steam Mech, the DK is about 10% over powered than a Steam Mechanicus.

    I don't know about other class combinations.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
    trakilaki likes this.
  5. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    You know that is only subtracted from your PvP buff, right?

    - Higher costs per damage %
    - BD does deal damage + bleeding, PS is still a thing, EA armor break is a thing, SS armor break is the only insta unavoidable armor break in the game, even if weak
    - Bird is a thing... you can attack your enemy when they're fleeing - or they get stunned, and rangers have the net, which reaches people from a higher range than FW; FW is the only reliable stun of the mage in PvP (if somebody gets too close - their problem, if somebody kills a controlled something and doesn't escape - their problem + rarely used, if somebody gets stunned for 0,5s due to bad luck - well, bad luck... but man, that's only mildly annoying, it's not enough to prevent somebody from attacking)
    - Better healing
    - Singularity... like the DK can't simply chase the mage out. And sorry, but mages have nothing else to do against DKs than just try to hold their ground in singu - yep, it's your argument about running and healing.

    This has to be fixed... by rebalancing the ranges, especially in PvP (they're different in PvP anyways I believe). If the ranges are correctly adjusted, bigger skill hitboxes won't be a problem anymore.

    Like there were crowds in PvP.

    Oh yes, it's the easiest healing for me when I play my ranger, it's WAY better than turrets that can be removed by the dwarf any time with just one jump out of the range or than the wolves that die just from a green arrow when I try to mark them. And bird is not a summon, it's a homing projectile.

    Hmm... let's take a look.
    Magic Missile - good dmg %, only mage's healing (albeit bad), but physical type - not that it's bad, this one is ok
    Fireball - dmg % only slightly higher than the former but with a comparatively massive mana cost, afaik not even fully elemental, provided with a large hitbox and the burning effect, which make some people use it - I don't!
    Ice Missile - not that good dmg %, slowing effect, just a supportive skill - sometimes usable
    Frost Nova - 20s cooldown, melee range stun and a stun break in the same time... when used as one, the other use usually gets wasted, since it's melee range it can be easily countered - yes, very useful... just too much use in one skill, and each use is counted by you all separately, as if it could be used separately as each one
    Teleport - 10s cooldown (ranger has lower - it's ok, dwarf has... half of that or even less, not really ok), technically has mana regen, but too useful as a stun break
    Lightning Strike - very useful in today's arena, where everyone has flash's speed by default and the buggers even more, so you can't land a hit with this mana-eating skill
    Frozen Wind - only usable stun, 20s cooldown (unlike warrior's ones)
    Chain Lightning - oh, very useful, low damage and a small chance for 0,5s stun... compensated for by fast travelling? not really
    Guardian - free healing for rangers and other mages... or for you, if your opponent is a mage and controls it for no reason, like it was done in the past
    Destruction - slowest skill ever that uses up all your mana, on top of that damage is physical; even if it's a high %... you're not gonna hit anyone with it
    Singularity - oh, the skill that people enjoy complaining about: but what if the mage can't stand inside it, because they're under fire/they're attacked by a DK armed in DH (effect resistance)/jumps armor (it compensates for armor break)
    Meteor - another slow skill that nobody is gonna get hit with
    Mind Control - useful if you're trying to copy some skills after controlling opponent's summons... what would you copy though in such a case?
    Frozen Sphere - slow travelling speed, even if it has high damage and slowing on hit - on top of that, trail hitting is bugged and oftentimes doesn't work

    I see 3 100% useless skills, and a few others, that have little use limited to specific rare situations.

    Why would you need more good melee abilities? Not even saying rangers have actually 3 good melee skills.

    Net and bird. That's two. +a few slowing skills: green arrow, hunting trap, ToT as area denial, etc.

    Similar in what? In that both are unlocked at lvl45? In that both explode (even if the explosions work totally differently)?

    EA travels way faster, bears an armor break, explodes on hit and only on hit, deals bigger % base but in physical damage, has the damage divided between direct hit and the explosion.
    FS travels way slower, bears a slowing effect, explodes on position and only on position, deals smaller % base but in elemental damage, and almost all its damage is in the explosion.

    If you either meet those mages with extreme HP or can't fight the honest ones (i.e. can't chase them out of the vortex with a massed attack that is going to disable them the skill for a while, giving you the space to make the real attack), then yes.
    TwiliShadow and heror like this.
  6. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    I think 10 sec for mage is ok since , he has less hp in the gear, and its his only escape tool. But idk what the devs tought when made the dwarf jump 5 sec, which lets be honest is not 5..... its 0 because of their" weak" turrets
  7. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    But it's the best debuff

    Better 3500 life points (assuming that war has 75 anger) or reset all cd?
    Teleport to War, stun and Singularity. Repeat and win.

    You asked to remove healing, when Singularity is one of the most powerful abilities in the game (after change).
    piteris2 likes this.
  8. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador


    Warrior's strategy:
    *mage uses singu*
    Rage jump into singu, BWS, stun, FotD.
    If mage stays in, you kill him... if mage goes out, he has almost full cooldown.
    Chase down the mage using FBC and GB/charge; headbutt if mage is out of stun breaks and you can do it in order to smash them to death instantly.
    Take your time to heal away the damage taken if you can't chase the mage down.
    Repeat however many times you need and win.
    Try to deal as much damage as you can, remember that what you dealt is yours and your opponent will not regain his HP until the next round.

    How come? Point me that skill that "stuns much better"

    Actually, ranger's healing is 3x that of mage in every situation, would be even more if they hadn't decreased the hp of the summons.
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  9. piteris2

    piteris2 Regular

    Enough debating, it’s pointless as we’ll never get anywhere...
    Let’s just look at the facts. Like the fact that on every server I have ever played, mages are at the top of the PvP leaderboards. And this is almost without exception. Now what is your explanation for that? Let’s assume that you’re right that mages are weaker than DKs in every sense (abilities, health, stuns, etc.) Why is this supposed “weaker” class dominating the rankings? Now answer that...
    66Styve66 and Jhinstalock like this.
  10. Jhinstalock

    Jhinstalock Active Author

    I'm almost done leveling my mage to 55 so I can have a taste of this OP class. I can't wait :)
    trakilaki and piteris2 like this.
  11. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Cant wait to see your essay on the topic , ill be expecting it.
    Jhinstalock and piteris2 like this.
  12. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    War jump in Singularity:

    Mage stun War, War is dead.

    FotD AoE small, Mage can move remaining in Singularity.
    Mage has the reins of battle. And War has a powerful shield like gwenfara. What would happen if Mage had that shield?

    Trap: useful only against war.
    Bird: in one word: slow.
    Net: hard to hit.

    Frost wind: Better stun in the game, after Assault.
    Nova > Trap, bird, net.

    Guaranteed stun. That makes too much difference in pvp.
  13. rcch

    rcch Advanced

    One can take a look on top 10 on each class on heredur server for example on duel and check win/lose ratios. Your "mages are op " talk proves to be wrong. For example top DK has 3369 victories and 69 poor DK :D and with similar type of win lose ratios several more players on top 10... I do not see anything like that on other classes. In fact mages seem to suck, they just play more fights to compensate
    heror likes this.
  14. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Guaranteed stun which is in melee range, so usefull only vs a Dk, so vs a ranger and a dwarf a mage has 1 stun. So for now im seeing how "op" mages are.
    Also what is the topic ? Tanks weak, or mages op ?
    Cuz if we say mages are op..... oh boy let me start on the dwarfs which literary can not be killed by a Dk because all their skills jsut counter the Dk .....but every DK : MAGES OP . meanwhile dwarfs makings dks go down on their knees. Who is op ? MAGES OP. ok......
  15. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    Let me reply to this. Yes, dwarves have high damage. But, the damage can be mitigated. They cannot kill a DK in two hits like a Mage can. So, since it takes time to kill, it is possible for the DK to avoid and come up with strategy. Go back, heal, wait for stuns to come up and come back at the dwarf. It is also possible to carefully dodge the only stun they have, and carefully aim the destination of their escape and finally score a win if you play smart.

    But, with the current state of Mages. There is no strategy, there can be no smart play because whatever you do. You are doomed. All the mage has to do is to get the DK stunned once (Yes, just once) and then DK is done. There is no recovery possible. there is no strategy available. No amount of healing would do.
    piteris2 likes this.
  16. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Which mage can do that?

    Let's assume the DK has 30k HP.
    50% res.
    Now, it means mage has to deal 60k dmg to kill him.
    Most the mage can do if the range is quite close (otherwise they will never reach him since the stun will end) are two spheres.
    That means about 30k dmg per sphere... so, 410% dmg=30k... 30k/4 = 7,5k base... if that was an unblocked crit... 3,75k base dmg. How can it be possible in current 1h "gearless" pvp? Not even saying that most DKs have 80% block rate and it takes an offensive offhand to be able to reach 80% crit rate (with perfect bases)... which still doesn't guarantee four unblocked crits... and doesn't explain the required damage that doesn't exist in today's pvp.
  17. cdeepal

    cdeepal Forum Baron

    I think You have made a mistake in your calculations.
    Let's see.

    Nowadays top Mages use 2 Handers because they can kill so easily, they don't need shields.

    With a 2H they have about 3.7k damage, crit is 7.4k
    Now, Ice Sphere is 410%, that is 30k damage before mitigation.

    80% block means, there is a 80% chance to divide damage by 2,
    so when unblocked, the hit is 30k and when blocked the hit is 15k

    Outside Singularity with 50% resistance, they can do unblocked 15k hit, blocked 7.5k hit
    That is enough to kill a DK In 2 hits unblocked or 4 hits blocked.

    Within singularity that is 1 hit unblocked or 2 hits blocked. There you go.
    piteris2 likes this.
  18. MaxDisappointed

    MaxDisappointed Forum Master

    Just stop ignoring facts on purpose to try convince others that mages are not good enough when they obviously are so much improved by bigpoint on purpose, playing almost in a god mode. Singu is not only a singu, is also a stun, due to the gearless PvP no one have enough mov speed without using skills to get out of the singu before being killed without having to use antistun to avoid death.
    The truth is that every change they did in PvP since gearless favors mages to the point where we are now (even yesterday a mage used MC on me and did 2 frozen winds in a row).
    It is an absurdity what they have been doing with some classes destroying them little by little while with others the opposite happened, provoking the situation in which we are now, it is a joke.
    So much fun seeing few mages trying to defend the indefensible and the mages who cried before are now in silence profiting the buff BP gave to them.
    One mage had the idea of saying "Singu was meant to work ever like that" (not true) and by convenience all mages followed that idea.
    So EA was not meant to explode? Whoever saying no, you are fooling yourself on purpose. Whoever saying singu is meant to work like that, is just a mage fooling himself for convenience.
  19. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    While this mindless mud slinging is going on here , let me explain something to you.
    I did tell them not to nerf DKs and you did.
    Further they also nerfed rangers.
    But lets skip the nerfs.
    Let me tell you what the core of the game was and what has happened since.
    The core of the game or pvp players was to farm the dungeons, so that they could be OP in pvp.
    Thats it, nothing more nothing less.
    You were seeing youtube videos of rangers like The wigger.
    You were seeing videos of Valak, @Slabutul9 , gtxthebatman.
    And many many more.
    the use of uniques in pvp made great effects like for example you could see a ranger doing blade dance with the grimmag set.
    You were seeing rangers like ron wigger doing insane things with his blade dance bow.
    You were seeing dks, doing cooled down fury.
    I think it was with R210 I might be slightly out but something happened to rangers and Ron Wigger left.
    He is gone for good, I tried to talk to him but he will not return.
    @Slabutul9 he barely plays anymore.
    The golden days are gone guys.
    Thanks to these irreversable actions the game is dying, and all the players are just mud slinging on something that due to its current state in pvp cannot be saved.
    @trakilaki does not play pvp anymore either.
    I like his suggestion regarding uniques for pvp only.
    I also like my idea for league mode where players can choose whether they want to play geared or gearless.
    Something really special has to be done for pvp and really really soon.
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  20. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Ignored for literary spaming things that areny even related to this patch or pvp itself , but are old things that u are still salty over because it didnt go your way.

    Idk how ppl even liked pvp in the first place. Since lv 45 it was garbage. Everything was always centered around one of the 4 classes. And when everybody started crying , the nerf hammer hit pvp and pve. I just suggest to remove it . Atleast the forums wont be burning with autism
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