Suggestion Rework the mage's guardian's group effect

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by ΣMiwel, Aug 29, 2018.

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Do you agree with the proposed changes?

  1. Yes

    13 vote(s)
  2. No

    7 vote(s)
  1. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    First off, let's take a look at the healing capabilities of all the classes.
    DK can heal in a "berserk style", by dealing dmg with MWS and DH, or in a "tank style", by percentage of his HP with BWS and Outburst.
    Ranger can heal with the wolfs/tree, by the damage they deal. In PvE, one attack from the tree is usually enough to fill the ranger's hp. Also, killing a marked enemy with a DB heals 30% of the ranger's hp, while a single DB deals 160% of his base dmg. That's usually enough to stay alive in melee range if you are not going higher than you should with your build. Also, when playing my ranger, when my hp is lower than one half, I usually just check which mob has low hp and I just run past him, when being close I finish him off and continue running (that's also related to my playstyle, where I keep as many opponents marked at the time as I can).
    SM can heal with the steam conductor, which is completly enemy-independent, so he can just run while using this skill and heal... that isn't a big value, but better than nothing. Especially that healing is not needed all the time, but at a special time of emergency... that means that the group effect with cooldown of 30s works well for that, even in soloplay (and filling his hp as well as that of his all allies when grouped).
    SW has to kill an opponent with a skill that deals 116% base damage to heal a total of... 10% hp?! Seriously...

    Grimmag's "guardian" heals him when they are standing close to each other. Why the SW's guardian can't do the same?
    The guardian's group effect is completly useless as of now. It grants a resource-regenerating buff after the guardian's death, which is very, very little without putting any points on it in the group talent window... and even with those points, guardian dies very, very rarely. His purpose is to either tank or stand next to the mage, dealing damage to monsters.

    Thus I am suggesting to replace the very effect with a healing factor.
    • Every group member in the range of 4 meters from the Guardian will get the Soothing Magic effect.
    Soothing Magic buff:
    • Regenerates 3% of your max. Health Points every second.
    • The buff is active as long as you stay close the the Guardian.
    Increase per talent level:
    +0.5% to the Health regeneration.​

    Please voice your opinion on this below and vote in the poll.
  2. KingKrazy1

    KingKrazy1 Active Author

    I agree that this would be a good idea. Another potential idea would be to have the a five meter radius around the guardian give a resistance buff like +10% to all resistance values.
  3. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    I wanted to fix two problems at once: 100% useless talent and the lack of a usable healing ability.
  4. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    0.5% * 50 levels = 25%
    + base 3% = 28%
    * 10 seconds = 280% HP


    *77k HP = a total of 215.6k HP gained over 10 seconds

    With all the cooldown reduction I have, Guardian up-time is around 90-100% of the time if I try.

    I will become a godzilla tank SW. Who even needs a DK any more? They're so last year. (Don't worry, I voted yes in the poll. I'm also going to find victims to farm All for One event until I get maxed runes if this happens.)
    Last edited: Aug 31, 2018
  5. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Keep in mind that an SW can take more damage than those 28% of his HP every second.
    Moreover, every other class has a healing skill in the middle section of the group tree. Ranger has Net, DK has BWS, SM has SC. SC is enemy- and position-independent (and can be executed when running without stopping movement), so he can do whatever he wants when executing it... but it has a cooldown. Rangers have to be in melee range to execute their healing group effect, but it heals them per hit, thus allowing filling the whole hp instantly. The net cooldown serves as the cooldown for the effect, but that one can be reduced with eg. Racing the Clock of SM. DKs have to be in at least almost-melee range to execute their healing group effect, but they're a melee class anyways... and the effect grants virtually unlimited hp regeneration, as it's 21% per crit, and on such a large area we can take at least 5 crits for granted. Paired with the 5p. talent which regenrates rage per hit (and when taking damage you will get rage anyways) and 1s cooldown only, it's 100% hp all the time (until boss, that is...).
    Finally a reason to do this "event" :D
    To be honest, I am not going to do that crap anyways... I am sticking to my resistance runes.:p
  6. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    Honestly, I don't care if they make the guardian group talent regen HP or mana for me. Either can be made useful depending on the situation. It just ticks me off that the current group talent promotes using only the 2 point talent to reduce cost, then plop my guardian in the way of the highest damage output attacks incoming so it dies ASAP. That does not require skill. That requires stupidity. Skill for me is putting the guardian in such a spot such that: it lasts all of its 10 seconds for damage, without bodyblocking your teammates so they don't run into it and die, without it getting mind controlled, etc. -_-

    So whatever effect the talent gives, it should not be rewarded for getting the Guardian killed. I believe whoever designed it thought it was a cheap way to fix the common SW complaint that Guardian dies too quickly on higher difficulties, but that does nothing to remedy the situation. We are not asking for a buff for playing stupidly, we are asking for the Guardian to either a) default tankier or b) scale to SW defenses to some degree.

    That's only because I don't have any of said resistance runes. :p That's what happens when you go on a long hiatus.
  7. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    While 95% SWs are glass cannons...
    That's what happens when BP says they would repeat the event soon, but months are passing and it's still not here.

    And they are saying that belt is rarely filled with runes so they make these runes go into the belt only... They should go into any defensive item one wants to be even worth considering.
  8. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    People made the choice to build glass cannons. They don't have to. If anything, I think making Guardian scale, however little, to a SW's defenses would encourage building defensive or at least balanced builds.
  9. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Something like: 2x HP of the caster (now inherits... that is not enough) + inherits block + inherits armor and res (and +55% if the 3p. talent is selected)?
    Well... that would make sense. Just I am afraid they would make it so that it would be useless anyways. I'd say that inheriting block rate and block strength by all the summons, not just dwarf turrets, is crucial for the game balance.

    On the other hand... if it was just inheriting all the stats, it would be able to tank mobs only if you were able yourself. And if you are able to tank mobs yourself, why to use guardian?
  10. DamarèRo

    DamarèRo Padavan

    I don't want to angry anyone but, mage have agro on guardian, Dk can do agro himself, SM have skill with agro and... ranger? not any skill with agro so what i try to say is any class have a big + and also a big -
    So don't be sad this you will find in any games, do not exist a perfect character... you need to handle how much you can with the + of your character.
    P.s! I forgot to say; i don't use heal on wolf/tree even on inf3, u need to move left, right dont stay in one are mage not DK... i think u want to stay in one place, kill all around you and guardian to heal :rolleyes: --> imposible. (do not be lazy)
    Have fun.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2018
  11. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    healing is a healing despite all. Plus after Dk rangers have them most hp from items and gems///
  12. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    You sir lack overall experience with game, it seems.
    First off, what do you think agro gives? Better drops? As I don't see why are you taking the DK in the equation... what you are talking about is clearly a skill dedicated to support allies by tanking for a group. This way ranger loses nothing. Mage and dwarf need dedicated agro because they have less hp than rangers. Rangers are supposed to be a tank-dmg hybrid... that's why they have more hp and it's ok.
    Where is the "big +" of SW? I don't see one. As of now, stripped of sets the damage output is in fact the same as of the other classes... and when you add the broken sets of RA and SM, they deal more dmg than SW. SW has less hp, less damage, and after losing health is not able to regain it (while the other classes can).
    It's not my problem if you don't use the skills your class has to aid you in battle... why would I do the same?
    Right... since when does "moving left and right" stop all incoming damage? It's impossible not to take damage at all... and when the drop rate of healing spheres got severly decreased with r209 I am not even able to heal away the damage I took.
    Oh, look, we have here a seer who knows what do others want! Instead of writing such posts as that one, think what do you want yourself. Or just start thinking at all, because your post can only be labelled "thoughtless".
    In forums, I hate the most people who first write, think se.. sorry, don't think at all, pretend they are experienced when in fact they are noobs (noobs, not newbies), and, in addition, are not even able to use proper english which makes them sound even more like a kid crying because adults don't want him to eat so many sweets...
  13. RoWaR

    RoWaR Forum Apprentice

    Why u speak about drop? ? You have guardian, guardian can lure the monster to him and u have enought time to kill them.

    Yes i saw in many post SW can clean fastest the monster in one map.. ( of my own experience i play with some players and yes is true, a good SW i can barely step with him, they are good)
    You want a perfect character ? make your own game!! :D
    You still dont like what i post here u can play on Ranger if u like it so much :rolleyes:

    You open this threat to speak about healing/ i can do solo inf3 without healing so u can also the same way or u dont know to play this game/or u are to low, i wonder only.

    Ofc is impossible to avoid all damage but if u move wisely your life can't be drawn a lot slow and u have time enought to use your best skill and why not a potion if is case.
    Is was my opinion so if u dont like dont need to put me at the wall men, is a free world, so dont make ppl noobs or newbie becose u dont like it...;)
    I am so sorry becouse i don't know english so good to can argue 3x times better.
  14. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Exactly..... you can do inf 3 without healing but ofc using potion..... o wait rangers have more base hp . mand more healing..= AKA healing which we need to compensante with potions.

    We have guardian ? good... summon it inside the q1 inf 3 and see how much it will survive . 1 maybe 2 second. and then what ?
    Mages have low base hp , ok we have mind control but if 1 or 2 mobs happen to be behind you they deal smth like 15k dmg with 18 k armor... so ye im all sacred amethysts and i still ahve like 52 k hp aka 4 atacks on inf 3 .

    The problem is that this thread is a mess. Gurdian tanks but not efficient, deals dmg , but its dmg is like 1 magic missle per second
    so its jack of all trades master of none.
    it can be used to tank inf 1 and 2 but if you have good stats its useless since you can oneshot the mobs and they cant kill you in 5-10 hits.
    And summoning him on bosses is uselesss since he deals a total of smt like 660% dmg for .... 10 seconds.. which is really bad. I prefer to use 1 destruction (750%) with that mana.

    On the other hand wolves dont have agro... true but they have 2 things going for them:
    1)Higher dmg
    3) can be upgraded to tree which gives AOE slow

    Neither class is perfect but the other classes have good mix of things. Mages can clear maps only because of ice sphere, Guess what if the mobs are ice resistant..... you are screwed.
    The thing is mage has most base dmg 460 or smt and with all sets he gets like 1k more dmg than ranger and dwarf BUT the effective dmg output is significantly less so = you have high dmg but its a lie and you deal lower dmg due to high cost and animiton on other skills.
    Guardian giving healing will be kind of an utility tool, you know its like giving hp to the front line 2h tank so he can spare the 60 range of the mighty wild swing so he can doe 3 smashes instead,
    Rangers saving they concentration for 1 more EA instead of wolves.
    SM well they have everything now so i dont thing they need anymore support
  15. RoWaR

    RoWaR Forum Apprentice

    Is my turn now to say exactly... dont worry is not sarcasm.

    Bro one potion is not end of the road... is welcome when u need most. I am sure u have 1-2k of potion if u are old player maybe more, use it when u need. I have a friend i tell him about this game and play it for around 4-6 months, i help him on q4 on inf3 maybe he can drop a staff, and hes gardian can keep the boss 5-6sek and u say your gardian die in 1-2 sec ? somthing is wrong here and dont forgot hes new ..and is just a example..

    SW are very good in maps at boss i agree hes is not the best and here is not only about healing/gardian etc

    Maybe this are our + about i speak..

    This are owner of the game decision. (they can change in the future. who know)

    Use fire skills / meteor etc.. what u can do ? monster die slow if u still continue to use ice skill on them, change atack what u will lose ? dont pus only 1 2 3 4 on keyboard u still have 5 6 and 7 u can set here another fire skills.

    What i can say more, i am not against you, that was my opinion, i am not a troll or i am not sure if i use troll good here in my case.
    Good luck with your tought are your rights!
  16. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    OK you actually dont make sense to me anymore...
    Use meteor ????? on a 60 second cooldown just for 1 mob..... wow pefect logic.
    OR fireball which has 138 base dmg.... which is like35 mana and even if its an ice mobs the fireball will deal max 200% dmg which is not even equal to piercibg shot of ranger 250% dmg.... the fire cant stack and the aoe dmg is really limited......I would say ok if fireball wasnt a trash PVE skill

    Also id like to point out how BP litterary said MAGES WONT GET Q8 because they gave ICE and Lightning resistance to sigrissmar...... litterary every mage is useless on this boss.... Armor in patch 209 got inc by 50%..... resistance ofc 200%% buff the mages and also nerf them twice as hard with this elemental nonsence

    Maybe they can change in future ??? this is the purpose of this thread ,........

    I have 1500 potions BUT i play scaling dungeon and i made an expiriment where i made 10 consecutive inf 3 runs...... guess what -100 potions..... ye atleast 10 per run and you get like 1-2 per run.... what if i didnt farm scaling dungeons.
    And by the way you were saying that we have taunt and that we dont need healing, i told you we need it and now you see he he its just a potion not a big deal ... you basically said 1 thing then the complete opposite. We are talking withput accounting conssumables because i can also say he he you have red essence you are not weak........i mean reread what you wrote above man its basically flipped 180 degrees back
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  17. RoWaR

    RoWaR Forum Apprentice

    Meteor why not is your skill use it for 150% dmg up with q7 set use / spam fireball !! You like it EA from ranger yeah we are stuck with q7 set.. so use it if u want to spam something :)
    We will continue in wrong direction in this way. I say it already good luck in your desire.
  18. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    even spammable i wont change my set just for q8 .... sorry but your ranger thing doesnt apply for mages....... i done with your q7 set abusivness i know that rangers have only that broken set ,, but others have choices

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