Suggestion Shared stash of your DK

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by Balorien, Jan 29, 2020.

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  1. dwarfmageOP

    dwarfmageOP Forum Apprentice

    Love the effort, thanks for that. But your vision is quiet limited indeed. You completely fail to look at the big picture. Your suggestion is just a less integrated then the oh so simple but also fun and complex idea i just shared above and by the way....
    outburst is unusable for endgame DK's since our skillbar is already chock full with all the usefull skills we need to do damage, survive and for mobility.
    we don't need more usefull skills. The skills we NEED and CANNOT REPLACE should be upgraded in my opinion. Endgame mages only NEED 4 skills. teleport, frozen sphere/lightning, singularity and Guardian to replace the DK xd(get it? one skill replaces an entire class). You wanna force DK's to use several skillbars and switch between them constantly? no thanks......

    I will explain why my suggestion above should be implemented for the people with less experience playing DK.
    The DK will have to stay in combat in order to keep up the damage buff. This means: more damage in pve, to some extent less survivability in pve because you will always want to keep up the damage buff.
    This will require a lot more quick thinking and effort. It will transform DK from the mindless meatball he is now into a fun and complex character by just changing one skill!

    Pvp will also by mildly affected but in such a positive way! The fights between anyone and a DK will stop being so stretched out and frustrating especially for DK vs DK. There is now an actual goal to work to during the fight: keeping your stacks up. All of the other skills in the DK skillset actually support this kind of gameplay too! There will also need to be a clearly visible aura effect around the DK or his weapon to show that he has the buff so his enemies can play around that.

    Seriously something needs to change here guys.... is it really fair that just any endgame team as long as they dont got a DK is the best way to farm.......?

    Yes DK has Dragon hide, yes DK has healing skills but does that even matter at all if they don't do any damage and they get replaced by one dwarf and a mage? or even better one dwarf and 2 mages?

    DK is bad at solo farm... DK is bad at team farm.... DK needs to be in danger all the time and does he get rewarded for this? not in the slightest xD

    Rangers shine on the maps, they make themselves and the team fly through them like a bird with their permanent armor break and their 5 man movement speed bonus.

    Dwarves obliterate the boss and give the team so much cooldown reduction. With mortis amulet the dwarves have a PERMANENT movement speed buff in the maps. dwarves also have insane area of effect damage using permanent q7 bonus with the rocket ofcourse an amazing and integrated armor break and to top it off heavy shot.

    mages are like rangers and dwarves combined but without the cooldown and the speed part... they fly through the maps, obliterate the bosses and to top that off, entirely replace the DK with their guardian.

    Each of these classes shines so bright....

    Now where do the DK's shine?
    Honestly i don't have a clue where they shine. I play this game for over 5 years with 75k dmg 150k hp and 3.1 attack speed i would call myself a very experienced DK player.
    If a player like me can not even tell you where my class truly shines.... something must be incredibly wrong don't you think?
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2020
    1vanka and DreamWill like this.
  2. DreamWill

    DreamWill Forum Commissioner

    Lol sorry I haven't read your proposal, idk why this happened (maybe I read too fast):oops: sorry very much for that, it's better than mine :) maybe because I am ranger and we have only 4 very good skills while others are … You understood (not all so bad, but not enough good too):D this is why I wanted to implement a useless skill:D
    dwarfmageOP likes this.
  3. dwarfmageOP

    dwarfmageOP Forum Apprentice

    Np my friend, everyone makes mixtakes just look at the dso development team. For sure you are mature enough to admit your mistakes, that is not something i can say about them. I'm wondering what other players think of my idea and maybe if we could propose this is an actual fix for the DK problem. Maybe change my idea here and there if it is not complete enough or either not good enough or if it would simply be too OP.
    DreamWill likes this.
  4. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    The modification you proposed will make DK worse in pvp (240% damage vs 200%) and in the map (explosive damage is better in the map). It only helps against bosses. Maximum damage is 320%, not 340%. 200% * 1.6 = 320%. ;)

    At these points I propose a reworking of the Smash:

    -Talent 2 points: change "lethal hit" to "critical hit".

    -Talent 3 points: no change.

    -Talent 5 points: For each critical hit, Smash damage increases by 15% for a maximum of 75% (5 times), for 3 seconds. Max 350%. Same explosive damage but better constant damage.

    Important change on Slash: Smash damage gradient removed. Smash AoE sucks, losing damage makes it too weak.

    Same power in pvp, better in pve. And for @Phyrix: work with Q7 and Q4. :cool:

    This change will make DK better against Boss without losing damage in pvp and pve. :)

    Even with these changes DK will still be the worst pve class, because the Dk has so many problems after 220, let's be clear. Just less weak than now.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
    Phyrix, dwarfmageOP and DreamWill like this.
  5. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    The class needs a total rework.
    Even, if you get an offensive buff for a skill, in 6-7 months a new expansion will make your character a total crap unlike ranged classes, which will take a smaller hit from the update. This has already happened in last expansion. Melee characters need significant higher damage output than other classes, because hit and run doesn't work very good by them. In other BETTER balanced games melee classes have better damage, better AoE and constant life leech or high regeneration. Ranged classes have to sacrifice defense in order to get a good damage. In Drakensang it's the opposite.
    Temporary measures will work only till the next content expansion, when the problems will become bigger.

    Imo the main problems of the class are:
    1. Less damage output
    2. Too many warcries and duplicate skills
    3. A crap lvl 45 skill, quite useless for farming and a trouble maker in PvP.
    4. Worst armor/resistance breaking skill.
    5. Shield DK is useless in endgame groups
    6. Class deals only physical damage with the main (and only) damage dealing skill.

    So here a few ideas:

    Skill Tree Rework:

    Furrious Battle Cry

    5 Points "Battle Armor" (+0.02 Block strength for 3 seconds)-> Add 5 Points "Leader" (Reduces all active cool down times by 1% for every enemy in radius of 10 meters, applies to all group members)

    Iron Brow
    Shred armor debuff: from -85% to armor and resistances -> -20% to armor

    5 Points "Recharge" (Reduces active cool downs) -> 5 Points "Constitution" (+1 sec. stun immunity per hit enemy)

    Banner of War
    Taunt moves to 2 Points "Intimidate"
    5 Points Law of the Strong -> 3 Points
    Add 5 Points "Shelter" (Regenerates 1,5% of your health per second (for the banner duration), applies to all group members in banner radius)

    Furry of the Dragon
    - 3x Area of Effect
    - Duration 4 sec. -> 8 sec.
    - Cool down 1 sec. -> 30 sec.
    - Damage per second -> damage depending on attack speed

    5 Points "Last Eruption" (Shock wave) -> 5 Points "Melt Armor" (-85% Armor/Resistances)

    3 Points "Invigoration Anger" (Regeneration spam) replaced by "Burning Heatwave" (5 Points)
    Add 5 Points "Hatred" (25% chance to apply Frost on enemies in radius of 7 meters)

    Now about the useless shield DK:
    Add a unique shield to the game, which reflects (returns) part of the damage taken to the attacker.
    Ex.: A group goes to Inf.4 boss with a shield DK, who is tanking the boss. The boss hits with 180K after the armour/resistances and the shield reflects back 150% of the damage taken.

    Add new jewels to the game, which can be socketed into rings (only 1 can be used):
    Jewel of Winter (blue): +600 Resistance to Ice; 100% of your Physical Damage converted to Ice Damage
    Jewel of the Sun (blue): +600 Resistance to Fire; 100% of your Physical Damage converted to Fire Damage
    Jewel of Thunder (blue): +600 Resistance to Lightning; 100% of your Physical Damage converted to Lightning Damage
    Jewel of Earth (blue): +600 Resistance to Poison; 100% of your Damage converted to Poison Damage

    Anyway we write all these ideas, but it's just a waste of time. Noone from BP will read them or use them.
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  6. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    Oh wow I can carry on quite a bit about this
    Firstly yes as long as the buff does not reset with non crits it will work for q7 and q4
    Also as long as the buff does not reset like rage attack speed buff does when using other skills, then for sure it can definitely work
    Dks shine nowhere
    firstly they want us to tank but a tank is about as much needed as more cdr on potions, oh wait :D
    in dso tank is useless dps dk is useless
    Anyways they would have to rework quite a bit of skills
    example rageful swing could be pushed to 125% of base
    kinda like this
    for how long and does this apply to the whole hp bar of a boss or oly the armor break phase
    in this you are literally stipulating what is wrong with dks atm
    the bosses have too much armor
    the armor variations is too high
    variable armor sucks
    I dont like charge and I dont use charge
    dealing elemental damage is only part of the problem for dks
    tanks need different conditions totally
    example for a tank to be able to solo for tank to be viable you need an applied skill:
    50% increased weapon damage when wielding a shield
    dks also need more travel speed when and after dealing damage that cannot be applied to a single skill only
    regen needs to cost less and happen more often while dealing more damage
    this goes for both bws and mws
    when did they change 2 seconds on mws to 3 seconds?
    did I miss something?
    was this a silent nerf?
    imo I would change it to 1.5 seconds and 250% base
    yes area of effect has to be removed from smash
    since rageful swing is an area skill but works as a main skill seeing it does 0.3 seconds cooldown per crit would be nice
    as for this?
    no 30 seconds on fotd is totally useless
    previously a dk had zero cdr on fotd
    I personally would like to see this
    zero cdr on fotd
    fotd is an attack speed powered skill and the eruptions happen based on attack speed
    there is so much more I would like to see for dk
  7. dwarfmageOP

    dwarfmageOP Forum Apprentice

    I very much love all the great ideas being presented here, even if they are definitely not finished yet.
    I need to say one thing tho... if DK's will get buffed like this then the cdr group effect from dwarves needs to be changed or nerfed because dwarf/DK combo will be way too OP. It is just like the 1sec potions something that kinda destroyed the meta in the game. And honestly why not? Dwarves can already give themselves so many cooldowns back with the turrets. Dwarves don't need the reduction effect at all. I think we should give rangers a small cooldown effect instead that applies to the whole team and replaces the dwarf group effect with maybe "25% damage for each turret placed on the map" or something like this.

    If just any moderator or developers would read this stuff and give some feedback... I really can 't stand the fact that they are so unconcerned with their playerbase. Does all these people going to the forum not mean a thing to you at all?!
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  8. hori-77

    hori-77 Forum Greenhorn

    Why not the easiest way. Phyrix wrote to increase damage from knowledge. This is the simplest solution. It will not work in PVP. Wizards and Archers will be the fastest on the map. Dwarfs and knights will be the fastest on bosses. It's a change of one number in the game files. Why complicate it. It's beautiful and simple.
  9. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    As simple as it may seem I already discussed this with players from other classes on the discord server and many say they will want those wisdom boosts too
    however I would remind them of things like 400% base on explosive arrow
    you cant have both its either or.
    atm dks heve neither and wisdom will have the least impact on pvp
    also that 50% weapon damage when using a shield should definitely belong in wisdom
    Sad to see that melee is a dwindling class in dso as the numbers decline it is most assuredly the melee players leaving
    Where the biggest class base used to be dk
  10. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    This is as a secondary armor breaking skill, like in the RA SS, which breaks the same amount. The main armor/resistance break (-85%) will move to FoD

    Charge is a great movement skill, you should think about using it. Actually this is where a DK shines - movement skills.

    My idea is FoD to become a second Singualarity. Read full description. DK needs a better armor/resistance breaking skill. This one will work the best and cool down is important as it will be too OP. Area of effect is very important though.
  11. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    well for fotd to come even close to singu
    it would have to cdr all skills including itself
    it would also have to give you rage while you stand in it
    and then break armor and resist while its active
    that would be an = to what mages get
  12. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    Just pumping damage won't really work. Next patch, which buffs bosses/monsters and the problem returns. 25% more damage in the wisdom tree is NOTHING. Damage stat is only one small part of the problem. Armor break skill (after applying IB, you have 1-2 hits till it expires, unlike other classes), team contribution skills (the poorest) and skill damage ...

    --- MERGED ---

    We have a very good cdr skill. In my idea I propose a second one, so a third is not really needed.
    We have already a skill which fulls "afk" the rage bar, a second one can be too much, but why not?

    Here what I wrote:
    Last edited by moderator: Feb 4, 2020
  13. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    25% more damage?
    You understand that dk will have an average of 10k more damage.
    That weapon attack speed I requested there would be an absolute modifier
    also no matter what with whatever the new meta is, a dk will still have more damage than the other classes
    just to put the amount of damage in perspective to you
    6% weapon damage from a dragan piece = 1k more dmg on average and thats on gold enchants not plat
    that means total more damage on average is 5k then the 25% relative modifier should push a dk to more or less 7-9k higher than other classes
    Alo you are dismissing the absolute speed modifier which would allow q7 wielding dks to reach 3.1+++ attack speed in spite of crafting their gloves with full damage, which would allow dks to attain another 7-9k more damage if they are q7 users
    Which would leave q7 wielding dks on a good average of 20k more damage than other classes even if the meta changes
    and bloodrune/ q4 wielding dks a good 10k ahead of other classes
    in pve only
    this will allow for dks to perform better in maps
    yes I know not much better but still better than it does now
    This would be like how it used to be when dks was the only class able to wield a 2 handed weapon, except the other classes has higher skill damage, we have higher base damage.
    however to put this into perspective for you
    10k x 240% = 24k bigger smashes / depending on armor ofc
    However because it is weapon damage added too, essences will have a huge effect so yes 10k more on whites but 15k more on green than other classes, and so it will escalate
    right now there is 2 dks in the whole of dso with 90k damage on whites with buffs
    these guys will have 100k on whites without buffs I believe
    if dks get this damage boost and still complain, then yes we need a serious skills dps boost too.

    A 40k damage q7 dwarf outperforms a 60k damage q7 dk
    Lets hope a 10k average damage boost is enough...
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  14. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    I am not paying them in order to think of ideas to improve their game. I wrote the changes they need to make in order to keep this class alive. Boosting pure damage is a bad solution imo, because sooner or later someone will ask why the DK has more damage in the tree and the nerf is one click away. If changes are made, they have to be complex or just one patch will make the class crap again. It has hapened many times before:
    1. DK had a weapon class with extra critical hit but less speed and damage, while other classes had books and quivers. Some years the reason for this change has been forgotten and now everyone has such weapons.
    2. DK got a shield with critical hit to compensate this ... it has been forgotten and the shield has been nerfed.
    3. DK used to have much more defense, because it's melee (PvP and PvE) ... now everyone can have the same defense - life, block, resistances ...
    4. DK needs to hit and be hit in order to gain ressources (rage) - other get it for free. With the last content expansion, they nerfed the passive (being hit) rage generation for one week ... because of incompetence.

    So one simple buff won't help much in the long run.

    Edit: Don't get fooled - a 90K picture in Kingshill doesn't mean killing bosses/farming maps faster ... but the opposite in most cases (no Zeal belt, no speed boots, no movement speed pet ...).
  15. Phyrix

    Phyrix Count Count

    thats actually with idoti gloves not idoti boots
    However for a player to have to go to such extremes to be competent in pve is a joke, they have made dks to be looked at as nothing more than a joke, however whenever you ask for a skills boost people cry.
    I would remind you that with R206 and R208 I was the one fighting for dks <- my pleas fell on deaf ears
    I would remind you that there is 100s of posts and quite a few threads where I asked for many many different forms of dk skills boosts
    I could point you to a set where dks push 6 15 frame skills per second and 5 20 frame skills a second at 25% of a skills' base damage added.
    They seem to wish to enforce tanking.
    I could also refer you to so many times I have reiterated that dks based on their resource generation is a melee dps class and not a stupid bloody tank only
    I could refer you to where I said that dks need resource regen added on top of generating rage from skills and taking damage and that melee dps classes regens hp because that allows them to keep dpsing without dying.

    I can do all this and still say to you, there is no light at the end of this dark tunnel for dks.
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  16. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    I don't trust the developers having the skills to repair/balance the class, so the thread starter pointed to the only solution - make DK a support class, which everyone can have and move the ressources of the actual DKs to another classes, because even if they buff your damage in the tree with 25% - ca. +5000 Kingshill damage, latest in September DKs will be crap again in level 60/Inf. 5. The problem is they don't have a vision how a melee class should work.
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  17. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    I know. DK problems:

    -Same defense of other classes (20-30% more life helps but is not relevant with current damage) without ability to play at a distance.
    -Low damage.
    -Healing is no longer a real advantage, thanks to healing potions with 1 cd.


    -More damage than other classes, so you can invest in defense without losing damage.
    -Better general defense of other classes and same damage.

    About the changes:

    Good, current talent is useless.

    Good, useful on the map.

    It is a banner of war, not a healing circle. lol

    I prefer the current version, simply change 2 point talent "movement speed" to "attack speed". ;)

    Best change you have proposed. :)
    Better armor break, AoE dmg, increases DK overall dps.

    I expect changes, a more balanced and improved game, otherwise I will leave the game after the new update. I want to play a warrior, not a support class. :cool:
  18. dwarfmageOP

    dwarfmageOP Forum Apprentice

    life of a war with 70k dmg: asking in region chat to farm any Q inf3, no responses whatsoever

    life of a dwarf with 50k damage: asking in region chat to farm any Q inf3, gets 10 invites in under a minute.
  19. hori-77

    hori-77 Forum Greenhorn

    Texts of people who don't play knights are funny. Maybe we'll make a wizard with support or a supporting archer. The knight has honor and will not wash the dishes. He is supposed to fight. A non-fighting knight goes looking for other lands to fight.
  20. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Exceptional Talent

    I'm curious to see how it will get worse with the next update. :cool:
    kuwabaraz likes this.