Suggestion Shared stash of your DK

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by Balorien, Jan 29, 2020.

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  1. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    Yes, I see a difference. I don't see the DK armor break in your comment of my quote

    So you understand, why I am asking, if you are playing a mage? We (DK) feel for the weak mage, but it has nothing to do with this topic here.

    It's relevant indeed.


    Now you see where the CDR will help you? Let's add mind control to it, a few runes ... and you have the class with the best tanking skills in the game (best slow, non-stop armor break, non-stop guardian).
     
    kuwabaraz likes this.
  2. hori-77

    hori-77 Forum Greenhorn

    Calculations are cool. Wizards keep the boss in place and have dmg, mechanics have the best dmg, archers clean maps the fastest and also have good dmg, everyone stands and hits from afar, the knight has no choice but to approach and fight closely, so he must have some defense obtained by reducing damage. There are no area skills, you won't even cover yourself with a shield because then you won't kill anyone anymore.
     
  3. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Dk s dmg loss comes from non permanent q7 aka their smash limit changing all the time, shift 50% smash speed to base smash and leave q7 with only 150% dmg , meaning u always have 6 hits , no matter q7 or no. and maybe make smash 290-300% achieving sw s dmg. Ofc u will be again weaker than ranger and dwarf but thats current design. Dk can be fixed easily with 2 fast shifts, many effective changes have been suggested but 0 actually applied to the game

    In other games its not Just spam 1 atack, thats also a thing to consider, not to mention those melee characters are full dps and dont tank or can be oneshoted , smt dk in dso has not going for him.

    elemental damage was added to compensate for some skills ( fireball, lightning ) functioning worse than frozen sphere , and even with that mage still doesnt outdamage ranger on 90% of the content, im not even gonna add dwarf dmg on bosses cuz thats sky high level
     
    DBS-Flamelurker likes this.
  4. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    As said by one of the biggest manipulators in Drakensang online
    Well its only on top of giving armor break resistance break combined with which pet?
    Also as protrusively obvious as you are in your amazing maths and findings, and oh help me here please magnificent rak but isnt it true that dks that has block use arachna for perma rage generation due to them standing in the venom/acid whichever you want to call it.
    so in spite of having full rage permanently the dk is the slowest at this given boss and every other boss
    you tend to point out only what you like and for this I hugely discredit your findings
    you see you tend to point out how bad the arachna map is as an example
    you discredit the fact that we have to use potions at this boss if we do not use dragan defensive while in the same breath saying oh but mages use potions and tonics
    however you disregard and shroud the fact that many mages state they do not even need it
    also this boe hoo excuse that youre ranged is null and void because correct me if I am wrong but mages stand on top of the bosses so as to share the singularity with a boss
    you are able to do that firstly because that slows them
    secondly you do that because its cdr for mages
    you do that thirdly because you know it attracts a boss
    you can forever go on about how weak mages are and manipulate the majority into thinking how OP dks are
    Is that not what youve been doing for oh how long?
    And on certain media platforms were you not the one silencing each and every complaining dk?
    I dont trust you
    I do not hold your view in high regard, and I know what you are like.
    Either way
    Personal issues aside I would not trust you to say anything good ever, about any class other than a mage, which is quite a pity, it is players like you that makes people look a mages the way they do
    EDIT:
    Not even half way done, wasnt it you whom asked why the hell is a dk standing in the acid/venom for?
    I mean come on its the only way we generate rage...
    EDIT EDIT:
    So all ranged classes in dso get to have the same armor as dks, the same resist in dso as dks, high resources 300+++
    with a max hp penalty of 30% and you get to be ranged, dealing how much more damage than us?
    oh wait only slightly more unless you account for the armor break / cdr skill all in one that contributes to total dps output in the sense that it also slows bosses down
    now how about that not only does it slow through and through but a dk can only stun a boss once or twice and the rest of the time it fails
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
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  5. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    Thicket of Thorns. It stops boss from reaching you pretty well.

    At least his not the bigge... wait. Stop it. You're making argumentum ad personam and you're namecalling others in that you're calling them manipulator? Lol. Like... what you're doing right here is manipulation.

    Write coherently at least. I'm not gonna read a wall of unreadable text.
     
  6. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Well that's one way to present how delusional you are.
    At some point you even suggested devs listened to me and sylent and that we're spreading "mage propaganda" and that's why mortis set was best for mages.

    If devs listened to us three (Me, Syl and Wraiith) you'd already have your DK buff online long time ago.

    Imagine thinking devs actually listened to us :D:D:D

    Manipulating? I wonder where, maybe all these numbers I have to fix for you every single time?
    Or maybe that one time where I just brainfarted and used wrong numbers to calc the difference between your brilliant set and current q7 at 3 or 4 am?

    The only thing you can do is slander to cover up your constant moaning (this and many other threads), missinformation (contantly using wrong numbers that profit YOU) and lies (saying im "the biggest manipulator in DSO") - especially about "godlike mage class" that's literally just slightly above dk.

    I know why you hate me - I have a strong opinion and I can argument well enough to hold my ground unlike you. You're just scattered all over the place wanting everything at once being unable to focus on fixing the gaping wounds of the game. Instead of actually trying to balance the game out you constantly suggest to break it even more and instead of addressing the biggest offenders in the game you jump at mages and scream at their faces when in reality they are VIABLE for barely a year.
    Do you know what mages were before mana tonics, physics and 1s potions were added to the game? A joke. And an unfunny one.

    Then half a year ago devs decided to make armor break possible on bosses as well as slowing them and from barely VIABLE they were made decent.

    And here you are, crying, for at least half a year that mages are a godlike class even before the armor break and slowing was possible when in reality since the release of Q7 up until mana tonic, physic and potions were added were legit WORSE than lv 40 ranger. EVEN DK WAS DEALING MORE (WAY MORE) DAMAGE THAN MAGE FOR 2 YEARS and here we are where you cant handle a bit of a "downtime" for your class.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  7. kuwabaraz

    kuwabaraz Forum Mogul

    If this continues we would have the usual big nerf for everyone!

    Only one class needs several improvements right now!

    The changes to the Wizard's abilities damage the group game of the Dk this is undeniable and I hope it is clear!

    This is one of the reasons for major conflict!

    Any solution is fine!

    Increasing the damage of the Dk seems to me the easiest solution!

    I don't like nerfs, especially given the result in past and recent times.
     
  8. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    yes yes 1 second potions needed on 500 mana
    All mages needed was mana, thats all, not a rework, they just needed mana.
    And they got mana, heck they didnt just get mana, they got slow, 1 sec pots, and you know all the mage changes.
    yy we all got 1 sec pots
    it doesnt change that they got mana and pots
    and any class can throw the q7 argument
    it does not change the fact, heck dk can have 10 000 rage, we would still just be chipping away at a rock @240% base per smash.
    I know it, you know it, heck the players that left knows it too
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  9. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Defensive dragan is the absolute best set for DKs - if you're not using it then its Q4 story all over again. None of my business and fault that you yourself handicap your character on your own volition.
    They stand on top of the boss for half a year.
    God please remove this from the game, all slowing and armor break should be removed from boss fights instantly and im not even joking. Do it, its absolutely unnecessary.
    Cdr is almost meaningless for Mage like I said in my posts on the previous page.
    Please find at least one message proving I once said that DKs are OP and quote it - I dare you
    If I ever would say such a thing I wouldnt say that DKs DESERVE DMG BUFF.
    Im sorry but you're just lying to yourself.

    Never did I ever censor anybody and ESPECIALLY when it comes to discussing about balance of the game.

    If I ever wanted that you'd be gone much earlier but I didnt. I WANTED to talk about game balance and I can safely assume we all want it fixed but we just suggest different ways to do so (remember we both AGREE that DK deserves damage buff).
    Yeah, please prove that with any evidence. You act the same way Jesse does - missinterpreting my words on purpose.
    I dont "defend my class" and never did - I legitimately DONT CARE how strong mage is cause:

    A) I barely play nowadays
    B) I have all 4 classes semi-maxed
    C) I care about balance more than I care about my favorite character
    D) As long as I can handle playing solo on semi-reasonable levels Im ok

    The fact that you bring THIS up as an argument is just ... saddening to put it lightly.

    Its not MY fault slowing and armor break was added to the game (and I want it gone ASAP).
    Its not MY fault Mage is the 2nd worst class (bottom half) of the "meta bracket".
    Its not MY fault most of the balance issues are related to the cursed boss slowing/armor breaking, Q7, RA and SM.
    Resource difference is meaningless - other classes need them (some more than others). DKs arent one of the classes that need resources (and sorry, as much as I'd love to stop bringing up your Q4 you're self crippling yourself - on Q7 you dont need resources at all and potting from time to time fulfills these requirements).
    Damage difference is "slight" only when it comes to DK vs SW (since its ~25%) - other 2 classes outshine DKs by MILES (RA almost 100% more, SM more than 200% more) and yet here we talking about SW being "godlike class". Its sad.
    If armor break / slow cannot be removed from the game (I wish it was) just add attack speed slow to FotD equal to Singularity slow - i have no issues with that.
    So ... if I use 4.2 spheres / s which is ... 168 mana / s spent
    and Mage teleport has 8s cooldown on average runes.

    8 x 168 = 1344

    8s is 1344 mana spent

    and you say 500 (which i can barely reach while having mana physic, group mana jewel from Defeat the Dragan event and 5 blue jewels of furtherance) is enough ...

    500 - (1344 - (13 x 8)) = 500 - (1344 - 104) = 500 - 1240 = -740 mana less than I need

    even considering I would sit in singularity which is about 2s less on teleport

    6 x 168 = 1008
    500 - (1008 - (13 x 6)) = 500 - (1008 - 78) = 500 - 930 = -430 mana less than I need

    bah lets even consider q5 pauldrons and average cost reduction runes

    6 x (4.2 x 40) x 0.75 = 6 x 126 = 756
    500 - (756 - (13 x 6)) = 500 - (756 - 78) = 500 - 678 = -178 mana less than I need
    (and that's with q5 pauldrons that barely anybody is using)

    So yes ... pots are indeed required for mages if you like it or not. Maybe not 1 second but they are definitely required.
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  10. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    You say mage is the second worse class and you think cdr, slow and armor break is useless? Then you are the one handicapping your char. The game is not only main damaging skill calculation. Actually the topic here was the crap DK class and the option to move to another class, if BP are planning to make the class tank only, because it's against any relationship company - (paying) customer.
    If you think mage needs to be buffed as well, because it's weak (which is far from true imo) you could start another thread and make your point there.

    I am ok if they give me the option to move to mage right now with taking only runes, jewels and gems with me. I was even considering of buying one (as some people did), but I better move back to the game I played before, because customer service here is a joke.
    The 2 years I was away, they kept sending me pleas to return and give feedback. Now I am here giving feedback, but noone is interested.
     
  11. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Ofc it is second worst.

    Like I said if cdr isnt meaningless for mage / ranger then prove me wrong - the only two abilities that profit from cdr is teleport and meteor.
    Teleport is easily replaced by resource pot and meteor is used only be people who arent yet worthy of using BM.

    Slow is barely of any use, you can easily kite the boss and deal 90% of your max damage potential.

    Armor break is active only during middle phase which lasts about ... 10 or 15 seconds solo.

    And surprisingly the game IS about your main damaging skill calculation cause drakensang is a "one skill wonder" game. You barely use anything else than your main skill. Other skills only support the spam of your main skill - you might live in 2013 with your mindset if you deny that cause the game move forward.
    They are not planning on making DK the "tank only" class since they made new Dragan boss map only available solo. If DK could only tank then it would be absolutely NOT FAIR to do something like this.
     
  12. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    if they have 100k yarn and the adequate amount in gems etc to try and make a defensive cloak with offensive stats.
    added I doubt that 100k yarn would suffice...
    singularity cools itself down = infinite singularity = infinite slow, = infinite cdr on everything needed or not
     
  13. Gligana

    Gligana Someday Author

    I keep reading the same about other classes as well "second worst". What's the common?

    As i said before its non-stop slow + guardian + cdr unlike any other class.

    This indeed is handicapping your char. I was building a new mage for me to eventually move and am playing with friends, who carry me. Never been carried by another class like mage, who kills inf4. bosses in a few minutes with white. So may be you have to stop with calculations. Now try this with DK.

    In the current situation I am not sure what they are planning. A solo achievement, while not all classes are made to play solo inf.4 equally.
     
  14. wavi

    wavi Someday Author

    Warriors ask for more damage hahaha, so they should also increase damage to hunters who have not established q7, more damage to wizards who only have 100 mana, and more damage to dwarves who only have lv 55.
    All classes can have 50, 60 or 70 thousand damages, the warrior's problem is that he did not adapt to the changes, most only walk with one hand, as if the enemies (monsters / boss) were so difficult to avoid their blows .
    Your solution is to walk with a two-handed weapon.
    Perhaps what warriors should do is ask game developers about breaking the armor:
    1. longer duration
    or
    2-Add to the ability of the Banner of War (that ability that gives them infinite fury xd) the breaking of the armor and the resistances. (It would be individual and group support for the warrior)
     
  15. .RakshaRanja.

    .RakshaRanja. Forum Pro

    Every time I explain the simplest of simple truths of this game I just feel like my brain was put in the blender and mixed into a very smooth liquid.

    @Phyrix and @Gligana you just cant write posts like these with a straight face.
    You either did never play other classes and your view is very limited (and you just base off your statements on theoretical gameplay) or you never played the game on high enough level to understand what Im saying.

    I wish boss slowing and armor break was never a thing. At least I wouldnt have to explain how both of these are almost irrelevant to the "class comparison" which some people can't still properly grasp.

    Either way, Im done explaining the same thing for now - there's clearly absolutely no point in that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  16. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Master

    I understand but now this is the reality of the game, and this has negatively affected the balance of the classes. In the same way as pvp changes.

    That said, I'm not interested in nerfing other classes, just making DK a decent class.

    Your math has shown that DK has worse dps and I add: worst AoE dmg and armor break. This wouldn't be a problem if DK really had a defensive advantage over other classes in Infernal mods, but actually needs higher defensive stats. Why Range > 30% life. Other classes can beat some bosses with Mortis and only 1 life, try with DK. ;)

    This means that, with similar statistics, DK has less damage and worse defense. This is embarassing.

    This is not fun, in the same way as Gwenfara shield on pvp. But advantage Gwenfara has been - rightly - resolved, now it must be resolved disadvantage DK pve. There is a difference between range classes, a huge difference between DK and other classes.

    Otherwise give at least the option to change classes while keeping progress, so other classes will change for DK ... :)

    Range classes have never given value to their range, not only in pve but also in pve. Range is one of the strongest strument in the game right now, along with damage. DK has no range and damage.
    Healing becomes useless when you die with 1-2 hit, you can still heal with potions. The only good skill Dk is now DH, still a skill with a CD of 60.
    A DK with infinite rage and permanent DH would take even longer than any other class in pve, which is absurd.

    Let's talk about classes with similar statistics. What you say doesn't make sense.

    I go without weapons and ask for more damage to these points ... lol

    If you don't want to use Q7 it's your choice, but the game allows you to compete with the other classes. DK, even with Q7, cannot compete. Imagine without Q7.

    Range classes don't even need to dodge, they have the same defense as DK. They can give up some damage and get better defense, because they have more damage.

    If the magician is better than DK this means that DK is the worst pve class.
    Before the wisdom change Magician was the worst class, true.

    If you think Mage needs buffs, you can ask. Here we talk about DK, which you consider the worst pve class.
    There was a doubt about this, the doubt was resolved. Yes, DK is the bottom of the barrel.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
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  17. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    I still like the idea of pushing 1h weapon damage to 125% in wisdom <- for dks.
    The reason would be that we gain the needed defences to fight a boss, yet have the added damage to kill a boss.
    However that will be a very very long fight.
    I will explain exactly why I chose the amount of 125% weapon damage and not more or less than that:
    Firstly currently 1h weapon damage goes to 60% for all classes.
    a bm player gets a lot of damage from the 100% weapon damage.
    however they mostly have an additional 34-40% weapon damage due to 3x dragan pieces.
    and since they are 2h they are able to get 368% idoti and they get 50% from weapon damage 2h skill

    So the damage will be considerably less, yet much higher than other classes wielding 1h, which in turn would make a 1h dk stand out a lot more.
    That and smash being boosted to 300% at its base as a skill should be more than enough for dks.
    2h dks will then not be left in the dark either and 1h dks will become viable, heck whether they tank/damage or pure damage or pure tank, they will be able to solo almost anything.

    Well that scratches the surface of dk damage but as you stated we dont have "regen" because 1-2 hits and we are gone.
    Which just shows why I consider the mortis set absolutely absurd, they could have done so much better with the set itself.
    dks have the same defences and more hp and we die 1-2 hits later.

    So use a shield they say and then what? you deal no damage, so adjust wisdom for dks so we deal damage wielding 1h
    I would see that and increase our regen potential reduce mws cdr to 1 second
    yes 1 second, youre not always using rage attack for cdr.

    I still vouch for 1h versions of q7 and q4 sets to be implemented too, as this would make the game interesting and heck if dks had 125% wep dmg on 1h and maybe 75% wep dmg on 2h we would be quite viable.

    And yes Phyrix made a set a while back that he absolutely loves
    Didnt go down too good in the votings as its considered too OP.

    So to sum it up:
    DKS 75% weapon damage in wisdom for 2h
    125% weapon damage in wisdom for 1h
    300% smash as base
    1 sec cdr on on mighty wild swing.

    and as a added bonus for my effort :D
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  18. heror

    heror Forum Baron

    Elaborate on this rocket since. Even on 1h its profitable to use dragan so u are loosing no more than the items unique value no the items.sp 3x6%. the set bonus is for all weapons. Actually not reading items.
     
  19. DBS-Flamelurker

    DBS-Flamelurker Forum Master

    I wouldn't touch wisdom, it must remain the same for everyone. I don't like the idea that only Dk has a different wisdom. :)

    I proposed these changes:

    2 points talent Banner: change -40% movement speed to -40% attack speed. Talent 2 points is useless.

    5 points talent Assault: change 2% to -5%.

    2 points talent Smash: change "lethal hit" to "critical hit". Change Smash base dmg 200% to 250%. Maximum damage 300%. In pvp it won't be a problem, because IB will be "nerfed".

    5 points talent furious battle cry: restore old 25% cost reduction, the current one is useless.

    Iron brow: change armor break in -20% (nerf).

    Fury of the dragon rework: This will give DK a skill with good AoE, armor break. This ability is too weak now.

    - 3x Area of Effect
    - Duration 4 sec. -> 8 sec.
    - Damage per second -> Damage depending on attack speed.

    - Cool down 1 sec. -> 30 sec.

    3 points talent: armor break.
     
  20. Phyrix

    Phyrix Forum Baron

    2h? 84-190% weapon damage
    atm 1h = 82% weapon damage
    you get the set bonus which is 22%
    and 60% from wisdom
    Did I stutter?
    I didnt say the 22% weapon damage doesnt exist
    I just said its more than 1h iow 34-40%
    Dont forget 1 second cooldown on mighty wild swing its something I want xD
    I mostly agree with your skills proposal
    I would just want 1h to be more viable too
    And if its 1 second on mws atleast when ranged players say hey you have "regen"
    We can say WE HAVE REGEN :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020

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