What the Game has Become?!

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by raider, Aug 22, 2020.

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  1. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    So being returned to game after a looong time (game was still Open Beta! or something) , these are some of the things I've noticed;

    • Game has become much easier for Start-up (didn't even take 2 weeks for 45 level) but became much harder at the End-Game, since grind has absolute no end and there are waaay too many things to grind, including endless Event waves.

      This is how the game is supposed to keep its players eh?!
      Definitely Not a good long-term plan..

      Besides, it's making non-Max Level content pointless.

    • The game has turned into a Damage (with Crits) simulation, to satisfy people's selfishness (and get more of their money) , just like many other browser games.
      Which seems to have made Tanking either useless/pointless, or ineffective/unfun.

      Solo aaall the way.
      You are a Tank/DK? Too bad.

    • PvP turned into such a mess.. I mean, it wasn't "great" before either but..
      Damage simulation combined with OP skills with almost no Cooldown, except poor DK's, made things even worse.

      Also whats this Upgrade madness [EDIT]. Everything disabled in PvP, BUT Upgrades.
      For real?!

      I mean.. I get it.. Farming is such a time killing thing, but at least add some reduction on their effect or a Level cap or something.
      The guy blocks my everything and hits me like 3k+ (which is about half my Hp and about 10-20x of my Damage) what the heck?!

    • Drops..
      Apparently many of the good ol' drops (of Bosses) got removed, or made extremely rare, and we are bound to "Paralel World" (Q) sets.

      Ah and, some are being sold via Andermants/Real money on Shop, or Premium Shops.

      Talking of Andermants.
      I remember how often they would drop from Monsters, which was lowered a bit later on, but now it's almost never.

    • Maps & Quests..
      Well, all Maps are still the same mediocre-level-drawn labyrinths after all these years and Quests are still same old repetitive things that are Kill & Collect and "Touch" which needing you to go from one end to some odd corners of the Maps that are on the opposite sides of the "world"

      But I guess I could ignore this if PvE & PvP balance was there.
      If only.
    • Of the Class balance..
      I mean.. 3 Classes are somewhat balanced from what I can tell, but DKs are lagging behind..

      They had their own advantages in the past but doesn't seem to be the case.
      As all you seem to need in this game is to have high DPS.. not high Hp with only Melee abilities that ain't on par with other classes.

      Otherwise they will solo everything in 5 mins and urs will take at least double, or won't even be possible.

      Now I know they are planning to do some changes but not in details so can't really tell if they will be enough or not.

    • Whats with charging real money for character nickname/customization though? Sheesh.
      Give it an Andermant option too at least.

      I mean.. First was free but didn't really think you would charge me real money for the 2nd.
    Well, this is it for now. But I might Edit this post hundred of times to add things in future.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2020
    kleftokotas and gbit like this.
  2. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    Ahh, a fellow returnee.

    To be honest, a lot of players (myself included) will play when new content rolls out... engage in the endless farm till we are bored... then leave the game. Rinse and repeat.

    Eh, it's too bad people got blinded by the existence of glass cannon builds with flashy big damage numbers on the screen. It is absolutely possible to play more "balanced" or even "tank" builds. People just don't want to, and they point new players towards pure offense based builds. And so the cycle continues.

    Tanks are still effective. I don't know about "fun" since I don't play tank, but it must be, given my significant other has remained as a tank the whole time. -shrugs-

    It takes brains to think of alternative builds and even more time and dedication to make it happen. Unfortunately, most players will not do such a thing. They will look for a build that works and copy it. That is why it feels like everyone is playing the same build.

    You clearly haven't played other games much if you're complaining about that. Most games monetize character customizations in one form or another... and it obviously works for them. Frankly, I would rather that they monetize customizations and stop making the game as pay to play.
    gbit likes this.
  3. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    Dunno how long you can stand your ground against Bosses at max Level but until then you can't really.

    Also as I said, they feel like unnecessary cause the Damages (especially Dwarfs') has gone over the roof (Except of the DKs, thanks to low-skill damage bonuses I guess) and it takes few seconds to kill the targets.

    So far I'm doing 1H & Shield with no-Wisdom-points spent in HP with level 19 Wisdom.
    And the Damage bonus I'm getting from Wisdom points is insane. Already more than %40 and that'd be even more if I was a 2H user.

    But yea, my Damage-output with Skills isn't great compared to other classes. But it does the job in Solo, although takes longer time than other Classes.
    When I said "customizations" I meant changing how your beard looks, how is ur hair etc etc which you choose when starting the Character.
    And the Nickname change, of course.

    Idk why it isn't possible with Andermants either.

    Otherwise I'm totally fine with "premium" customizations and NOT with "pay to play"
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  4. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    A 1h+shield DK is no longer meant to just "stand their ground" any longer. The "lazy tank" where all you do is get free rage from damage and spam taunt skill kind of died out a while ago. XD The stats (and time/money) required to do that would be astronomical, and I believe they buffed bosses a while ago, which made that even harder to do. Nowadays, if you want to play a 1h+shield styled (I'm assuming Dragonknight?) you have to play it smart. It wouldn't be wrong to say you're closer to playing a support than a pure tank. Your role becomes to redirect aggro, while dodging the skills that will insta-kill you, while increasing the damage/attack speed of your damage dealers, while also healing. Probably also a few more things, but the last time I played DK was quite a few years ago. I only observe DK play now.

    The best thing to do would be to find a dedicated party or parties who will take you along. The amount of teamwork required with a 1h support styled DK is on a whole other level than "everybody spam damage till it's dead" mode that people like playing nowadays. This is partly the reason why 1h DKs are an endangered species.

    If you want to play 1h+shield styled any other class, then you will have a much longer uphill road. Those are pretty much extinct. I can't think of a single endgame player I've seen on my tiny server who plays that right now, myself included.

    About dwarves and damage, I think it is pretty much unanimous with everyone in this game. They are overpowered and belong to a whole class of their own. Frankly, I avoid playing with them if I can help it. They make the game even more boring than it needs to be because everything gets vaporized before I have a chance to blink.

    When it comes to class balance and play styles, you just have to ask yourself if you want to forge your own road and play for fun, or you want to copy everyone else and just be the same.

    I know exactly what you mean. And also, many other games do the same thing. DSO is actually quite generous in letting you change both your name and your character's base appearance at the same time. The last game I played would charge separately for each item. I guess they could always do that... charge separately. :rolleyes:
  5. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    Can you even make a glass cannon?

    You can reach huge amount of damage/ crit/ crit damage and also gain a huge amount of life points, without medicins and tonics.
  6. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    Well, I'm not really against that, although I don't like the sound of being a "Support" (of pure Damagers)
    Now this, is the issue I'm trying to point out, but, I can't totally put the all blame on players.
    This sadly conflicts with the issue above. Game forces you to certain builds/play styles.

    I never really been into a DPS character in my whole gaming life but when the odds are extremely against the anti-DPS character, what can you do?!

    I mean, I'ven't really tried combinations but it's all clear, that, you must do tons of "Damage per second" to get going as time is quite crucial since grind has absolute no end.

    As far as I can see, 3 classes can do that easy enough, but not DKs. Even with 2H I don't believe that they can.
    Comparing Skill Damage bonuses should be enough to come to that conclusion. Apart from not having Ranged skills that is.
    Meh. I guess I should make a Dwarf character to get them nerf/balance it, since I'm that unlucky :p

    Yes, but, as far as I know, they let you do that with in-game currency too rather than only real-money/cash/credit card etc.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
    silverseas likes this.
  7. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    Glass cannon is, I suppose, a relative term. Back when 10k HP was a mind-blowingly huge amount, that was considered pretty tanky. Nowadays, 10k HP... I'm not sure that's even possible unless you wear nothing but a weapon lol. :rolleyes: So, what I'm really referring to are people who do the bare minimum for their defense. Which is the say... the only reason they use amethysts is because they aren't allowed to stuff more rubies and onyxes in their gear, and they have run out of places to put their wisdom talents so they put their extras into defense, etc. Most people do not go out of their way to craft enchantments for additional HP, res and armor. They discourage the usage of sets and uniques with defensive properties. And as for block stats for 1h build, well we can forget about those; 1h builds are almost extinct except for once class where it's dying out pretty quick too.

    Can't do too much about it. You just have to work with what's in the game. If you're creative enough to find a build that lets you build high enough damage while surviving hits, then good for you. :)

    That said, I am not a DK expert. It's too bad I can't drag the DK I normally play with onto the forums, he'd have much brighter ideas than I would in this area.
  8. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    It kinda depends on what kinda changes the Devs are planning to do with DKs.
    (I suppose they don't plan to do changes on Dwarfs and the overall insane damages of all classes that coming via Wisdom and Upgrades)

    I mean, from what I see, Hit & Run is possible with every class, it's just harder for DKs with less Damage output and being have to Melee the target, that is why I don't get why "Standing ground" made impossible, even with all the Hp regenning abilities.

    So far I've been doing 1H-Damage hybrid and it's been good enough after Level 40 or so.
    Right now around 14k Hp with about 1.3k something raw Damage at Level 47. (Atlantis set with 2 Keen set piece + Gorga Shield + Destructor Axe)

    Sadly Destructor Boss ain't farmable and of course I've only very few T1 items and didn't really bother to maximize the bonuses via upgrading and stuff since it's a waste of time sadly as game is pushing you to reach the Max Level as soon as possible.

    I will try 2H when I hopefully get a Unique set with one.
    Last edited: Aug 22, 2020
  9. sargon234

    sargon234 Commander of the Forum

    The bare minimum for defense is more than 100k life points, 80% armor from normal to fatal or even inf 1, and close to 80% resistances from normal to fatal, that's pretty tanky and not really a glass cannon.
    A glass cannon is a build where your character is fragile but in turn deals a huge amount of damage.

    but even without focusing on defence( and mind you, i don't have all royal gems or runes maxed out) i have 130k life, 80% armor up to inf 1 and close to 70% resistances up to fatal.
    I laugh at mobs in fatal since they can't outdps my life regen and if they are mobs that deal ice damage, they actually heal me thanks to a jew provided by the halloween event.
    I can probably max out to 140k or 150k life if i wanted too.

    And i am a mage, mind you, not a dk.
    A dk could probably have 200k life points.

    1h builds can be made, but they are more difficult to pull off, 2h is very easy instead.
  10. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    ^ Sooo making a Defense build ain't even needed as I pointed/guessed :p

    Also that post alone shows how borken the game is.
    Mainly because of upgrades and wisdom.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  11. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    Btw, I've yet to figure why DKs don't have any "helper" guardian/tool summon/spawn skill to help with survival and/or deal with ranged enemies that keep running away.

    That could help a lot with our issues if that "thing" would do Ranged attacks and take some Aggro, since apparently "Tanking" , that is hit and run "Tanking" (as Standing ground made impossible) , can be done with any class..

    I mean all 3 classes do.
    Hell, Steamers have multiple even. "Machine-gun" , "Rocket-launcher" or whatever.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  12. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    What about higher infernals? Wouldn't it be nice to withstand inf 7 or higher monsters? I don't see any point in dreaming of only being tanky in lower difficulties. That is too easily accomplished as long as you have high tier gear and wisdom.

    You do. DKs have 3 different gap closer skills for chasing down the ranged. Charge, Jump, and I forget the name of the other one but it increases your run speed for a period of time. For survivability, you have Dragon Hide, and I believe there is a talent you can select on Jump to increase defenses too... so you don't jump to your death. xD You other choice is to try and stun the target with Ground Breaker then walk up to them. There might be other methods too, but like I said above, I don't actually play DK any more. I just play with them.
  13. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    We do?! Since when we can spawn/deploy a 2nd "guy" to help us like all other 3 classes? :rolleyes:
    (Apparently Dwarfs can field 2 rocket launchers at the same time!)
    All those work on a "Straight line" basis and doesn't follow the target like arrow/magic/bullet so good luck catching other classes that can teleport with 0 (or very close to 0) Cooldown "teleport" skill.

    Dragon Hide sadly has too long cooldown & very short duration, so does the "Furious battle cry" , relatively.
    Mostly they end up being wasted since opponents keep teleporting. Same goes for that "Rage Jump"

    These being said, I wasn't specifically talking of a PvP scenario but PvE instead.
    PvP truly f'ed anyhow.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  14. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    Oh you mean a summon. Unfortunately for DKs, you can only rely on unique effects that (eg. Dragan's Signet Ring) for that. But really, you're supposed to be the front line... what do you need a summon to hide behind for? XD

    I was talking about PvE anyways. I haven't set foot in PvP in years. I believe there's various cooldown reduction tricks (the inner workings of which I am unfamiliar with). I think one of the basic attacks reduces cooldowns or somesuch. That's all the hints I can give for DK PvE play. :)
  15. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    It's not about "hiding" . We got soo many disadvantages compared to other classes. Would be cool to have a summoned guy to help with some ranged attack or whatever.

    Ah and, I don't believe there is such thing as "front line" anymore. Any Class can reach high enough Hp to be able to "Hit & Run Tanking" since "Stand your ground Tanking" is totally impossible against most Bosses & Damages are over the roof.

    3 classes have many Ranged attacks with high DPS already, I don't get why they need those spawnable thingies.
    So that they can solo anything without a "Tank" ? Yea that's how things are right now..
    Well idk the "tricks" but 1st skill's 5 point talent has such cooldown thingy "Per Critical Hit" and so far I didn't see it being useful for me.

    If I have to wait for Level 55 (or 60) for that too.. Unlike other Classes with sooo many great abilities at any Level.. Meh.
    Not fair.

    Ps. I'm keep updating the OP time to time.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2020
  16. Hiro73

    Hiro73 Forum Expert

    All war skills work well up to the inf4 mode because war stats are sufficient up to that difficulty. In inf5 and inf6 mode a class like war is a total failure. Try to take a simple hit from herold inf6, you can test with 300k hp and active dragon skin, please do it ...
    Probably the war even with a helper and dragon skin every 30 sec could never kill a boss in inf7 (Parallel world).
    There are some users who have made inf7 bosses with their ranged class and I bet they would also be able to kill a future inf8 boss without taking hits.
    raider likes this.
  17. Inu

    Inu Junior Expert

    • Heh... it is faster 55lv is posssible to be done in one weekend of pushin...
      You 45lv so after you done with lvling upgradin your first diamond on blue craftin +300%weapon makin first atck speed rune square 20%one and complete leaderboards then start post these poops.

    • I dont know about which money you write about... Im in one year of tryin in end game phase with spend 0cash and non stop with deluxe membership.

    • Go and check some videos wars are pretty good in pvp if you know how to play it like all other classes.
      PVP is unbalanced but not in way you mentioned...

      Uniqs arent hard to drop at all... like q ones same with regional uniqs..
      For andermants-real money you can buy just regional uniqs which are so bad you really dont need them...
      Premium shops?? If you think premium shop at premium day so there you can buy uniqs with gold or andermant
      which you can farm in game and buy everythin you want no need to spend single penny there

      Ehm yes anders drop was nerfed... but go try FBI i3 for like 2hrs you will see some anders drops there... ofc on 45lv you drop nothin or stack with 1ander

    • From what yu can tell?? Youre 45lv not even levled and talk about balance...
      There is some serious unbalance but see it comented by 45lv which dont have experience with end game not even fresh 55lv is so wrong...

      Yes is not useful for you and in same way is so important for you on 45lv when your critical doesnt exist XDD
      Then you dont have less cooldown same you dont have wisdom so no cooldown from there you have noone runes so no cooldown from there an we can continue... Just check this ranger at 45lv shoot 1ea which is main dps skill so they need to use precise shoot or spam green arrow.. so yes meh is not fair meh mainly is not fair to see 45lv talk about thing which know nothin...
  18. raider

    raider Forum Pro

    Rush rush rush. End game end game end game.

    Why everything must be rushed, or must be measured by frickin End-Game that is actually not an "End" cause there is absolute no "End" to the Grind/Farming?!

    Every class can single-handedly Farm the Bosses and everything as Solo and quite fast but Dragon Knight at any given Level.
    But hey who cares! That's not End-Game thing! You must suffer until you make ridiculously OP sets, gems, runes, wisdom or whatever next stupid endless-OP thing BP comes up with!

    As if things are different even then.

    You can't be Tank because there is no point, no use.
    You can't be pure-Damager either cause your Skills are weaker compared to others and you must be right beside the monster!
    Lol as if Deluxe membership is free.

    Anyhow, the point is, the more you spend, the better you get. There is no end. There is always better Damage.
    Only very few people wouldn't want to 1-Hit everything with insane Crits.

    I hope you don't deny the "advantages" of giving money to the game though?!
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2020
  19. Inu

    Inu Junior Expert

    There is no need to be rushed. You can develop your Dk one year for 10k dmg is your thing. Or you can try other class clearly your choice.
    Honestly i have all classes on 55lv and i enjoy spend time in game when have time and is true some classes are faster or more tanky or more comfort to play. You no need suffer if you suffer go find other title or try to learn how to play dk best as you can on 55lv with all possible skills.

    Right now is there aniversary event and i run with my alt char and see lot of dk-tanks in group formed by lower dmg-def players play i3 and they dont suffer they appreciate tank in group so again you talk about somethin you know nothin... i no say Dk is op...
    Yes theres lot of possibilities to take deluxe for free just by playin events. Im right now 130days of free deluxe from playin and like 60days normal premium so again you write about somethin you know nothin...
    There is noone who is able to hit something on one hit with high end game chars on i7 which is most hard difficulty
    so one more time you know nothin...

    And i spended 0cash. Good luck with developin your char and just friendly remind
    Try to spendin more time in game instead of cryin on the forum
  20. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    Stop it man. Here you have no clue what you are talking about.

    Oh, SOOOO mAnY aBiLitIes!!1!1!

    You can screw up any class. You're clearly screwing up your DK. I don't have any problems with DKs under lvl55. On the cap level is where the lack of balance starts being visible, but that's not because DK is poorly designed, but because of what matters in this game. And what matters is
    and DK has slightly smaller dmg output than the other classes... also
    and this here doesn't harm DK but I'm mentioning it as a problem... also
    and so the boss damage output has been made so great that having higher defence is irrelevant.

    What has to be rebalanced currently are the monsters (and sets), and the "hit&run" breakpoints removed. And dwarf has to be nerfed, but that's a different story.