What's happened to Armour values?

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Yogo, Mar 18, 2017.

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  1. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

  2. To the best of my knowledge, it is not a bug. Items have a value cap.
    Yogo and YouWinOrYouDie like this.
  3. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    Thank you very much. Could we kindly find out what those values are? Would you be able to get this kind of information for us please? I am sure that many players would like to know what and how to invest their Materi Fragments and other resources before they start crafting. Please:)
  4. @Yogo Absolutely. We have asked for the updated max enchantment values for items and have been told that it's coming. We will also ask for item total value caps.
    Yogo likes this.
  5. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    Thank you a lot! That will be very helpful. You see, for the past let's say 3 years the only cap we have been aware of was 80% for armour,critical hit value and resistances but not on the items themselves but on the Character Card on the left on the screen below (unless we missed something).Let's see this example:


    Now imagine what a player who has been investing in Fortyfing Gems for years must feel when he or she finds out that 2 or 3 of the gems actually make no difference...wow...that would be really shocking:)
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  6. Priap

    Priap Forum Apprentice

    That its bug in my opinion because 2 days ago with the same armor I got 63,22 armor value like you can see on that screen:

    And today on the same armor and only armor i have 60,98 %:
    How that can be possible?
    Yogo likes this.
  7. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    They just need to change their way of thinking.

    Think of it this way.

    If 10000 is the max (which that thread seems to imply), then assuming a player has 5x40% Runes (basicly the kind of player who would care about this to begin with) then we just need to work backwards to see what they should go for.

    So, assuming 10000 as the start point, we devide this by 1+(5x40%)=3. 10000/3= 3333. That means that this is the target for armor from gems, enchantments, and base stats. The 1300 line on the torso in the other thread is from a T3 torso and isn't even gold. I have a T1 with 1530 at LVL 60 and the stats for T4s can go 20% higher than T1-T3 so lets round that up to 1850 for a working number. That means that you need about 3333-1850=1483 armor from enchantments/gems. Looking at the new royals, you can get 5x250 for 1250 total. This means that with as little as 1483-1250=233 armor from a legacy enchantment, you could max out a torso's armor cap, but that is probably a waste compared to the other stats that you could get in it's place. If your goal is defense, I'd wager that % Armor (global, not on item) is calculated after that step, so for every % armor (say 9.5% or higher) line you can get onto this perfect torso, you'd gain another 950-1000 armor. So, with 4x9.75, you could get an extra 3900 armor from the torso, not counting the effects of the % armor on other items and other items/sets with % armor effecting it. Sure, it may be capped at about 10k, but with some creativity (which is seems that other forum seems to be ignoring in favor of blind rage), you go down a road that may actually be as good or better. By my rough estimate, the other items (helmets, shoulders, gloves, boots, and shield) should offer approximately 5000-5500 armor (before upgrades) and 39% of that would be another 7000-7700 armor. Total, a torso with 4x% Armor lines and the right gems/runes, decent legendaries, and a little creativity, and you end up with 21k+ armor which should be more than enough. Leveling thos other defensive items up (since they have HP too), and I would expect to see people able to reach 25k or more armor while still having respectable HP.

    Furthermore, it allows for a different kind of flexibility. A 1H or 2H DK doesn't need to sacrifice much armor if they want 4x%Damage lines since they can reach near cap without any armor related enchantments.
    EhtovK, Reinier and Nostradamus88 like this.
  8. Check your buffs in the first image
  9. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Go finish your Silver or Gold daily quest in the middle and it will go back up to 11k.
    You're welcome.

    P.S. This sort of proves my point about % armor enchantments still working on the 10000, making them the superior enchantment for endgame tanks.
    Priap, ImmortalDeath and Allogeneous like this.
  10. ImmortalDeath

    ImmortalDeath Junior Expert

    priap, if you look at the buffs you had on, you had a daily buff that was giving 10% boost. 10% boost on 10k is 11k.
    Priap likes this.
  11. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    So it may just be that any armour can give us a maximum of 10000 armour on the Character Card? Therefore as you seem to suggest we have to be very careful while crafting and perhaps utilize the new, post r185 item rather than legacy bonuses such as armour value? Also, we should be careful as to how many and what quality gems we use in the armours? I hope I got it right:) If not- forgive and enlighten me:)
  12. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Also, my numbers are not too crazy. For example, take a look at this. That toon is already rather close to maxing armor and I doubt that it is a "perfect" torso by the definition above. If anything, since there is a hard cap of 80% and my math shows that reaching 80% isn't too crazy (for a P2W) to reach without any legacy stats, I don't know why anyone is complaining. That torso with 13k armor wouldn't be much better at helping you reach the 80% cap since you'd be missing out on the % armor from the enchantments I recommended. In fact, it may even be harder.

    My recommendation, ditch the armor gems like you did in that one pic for HP gems until such a time as you craft a 4x%armor torso and farm a T4 Sigris torso. Then you will get a straight upgrade.

    You are correct.
    In this new meta, the ideal end game torso would be a T4 torso with 1500+ armor at LVL 55, 5x40% armor runes, 5x250 armor gems. That combined with the right hand side gear and a shield should push armor into the high 70% reduction range.
  13. Priap

    Priap Forum Apprentice

    Yes now I see :)) thx
  14. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Here is another advantage to the %Armor torso approach. Credit goes to Kroma2 from Agathon who got me thinking about this.

    I was going to make a whole thread about it, (and I may still), but here we go.

    This also has applications in PvP; particularly against Armor breaks (time for the SWs, RAs, and SMs to invade this thread and start crying).

    The debuffs apply a -85% armor/resistance debuff. Now, experimentation says that this is not 85% of the armor/resist shown on the character card, but 85% of your base armor, the same as essence operates on your base damage as opposed to your displayed damage. That means that if you have +39% armor from your torso and you are standing in a singularity, you are actually at a total % armor of -46% armor relative to your base armor.

    Consider your toon that was standing there naked except the torso. If you had the 13273 armor you expected to have, you would go down to 1991 armor inside the singularity, and if you consider the capped version, you'd go down to 1500. But with an identical torso (same base stats/gems/runes) with 39% armor instead of + armor lines, you'd see:
    (1352+900)*2.6=5855 (base);
    5855*1.39=8138 (displayed);
    5855*(1-0.46)=3161 (armor broken)
    (8138-3161)/8138=61%(apparent armor loss)

    So, even though it isn't even at the 10k max, you'd already be benefiting when fighting in PvP.

    See? Isn't math fun!
    (Armando's going to be sad he missed this one)
    EhtovK and Gevilson like this.
  15. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    Would other items have a cap as well then? would it be 10k armour too? It would be so great to get a chart showing it properly:)
  16. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I'm sure that all items probably share that 10k armor per item cap, but I'd be willing to bet that it is impossible to reach the cap on any other item since there are no "% armor on this item" enchantments (I think? can't remember) and no % armor runes to enhance the base stat and any cyanites to such ridiculous extremes.

    For all we know, there has always been a cap built in, but until this release with the inclusion of a super high base armor line, the ability to use gems and runes at the same time, and the "easy" ability to bring all those factors together on the same item, it was never even mathematically possible to reach the cap. Who knows?
  17. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    Yes, who knows indeed. Well- hopefully one day we shall get an official annoucement from BigPoint and everything will be clear.
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
    Nostradamus88 likes this.
  18. Nostradamus88

    Nostradamus88 Active Author

    @_Baragain_ you really are a precious member of this community. Thank you very much! (And my character is a mage :p )
    Melethainiel and _Baragain_ like this.
  19. malasuerte1

    malasuerte1 Forum Apprentice

    Baragain is very good these days :)

    I really hope someone from the devs is reading this.
    Well, i showed an example of 4%Armor torso. And a lots of armor runes. Used boots on lvl60 with 4Xarmor lines (three of them yelow). The result of remaining HP is horrible. That`s the first part.
    Next comes the question with our beoloved resist.
    You can imagine the belt and stones. Well, for all this i had to use some of the Heredur rings.The second part results in the crit value. You can cry just looking at the crit.

    In the end i can say - so called "diminishing returns" ( or whatever ) is a bit extreme. For a toon, lets say of a year or two, is impossible. Clovers are hard to get. And they are too important now. Too important. Whithout those runes is not a good idea to build 4x%Armor torso. Which will bring the total armor value from the other parts.
    Ah, and removing armor lines from gloves and boots is the other thing. Getting a good amount of HP and armor above 70% seems mission impossible. Even with 4 gold lines items. Sorry to say this, but this is extreme. Really extreme.
    At this point i`m not talking for the crit. This is another thing.

    In the end, maybe there is some things that i don`t understand at this point. Maybe in the future we will build easy, but at this point i am confused.
  20. Yogo

    Yogo Forum Great Master

    Don't worry- everything takes time- if we all work hard , few months down the road we'll be flying!:)
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