Why BP? Why?

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Hartvig, Jan 23, 2014.

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  1. Hartvig

    Hartvig Forum Inhabitant

    Yeah, we don´t complain about the bugs we can use:D
    But about that, do this have to be a "bug-war"? Where we are stopped to do things because of bugs and are doing something else with bugs we can use? And with every release we go for findeng the bugs we can use in the first week?
    That sounds like a pretty bad game...

    First of all, thats a big post u wrote there! :D
    I know the devteam isn´t that big, but why release patches when they are filled with bugs instead of waiting a week and fix the bugs before releasing?
    Thats the thing im complaining about here. They know there is bugs, why then release the patch? Do they seriosly think we rather want lots of updates and bugs instead of few releases and no bugs? And they have a TS, why not use it proberly?

    Can any Mod come with a good answer? I mean better than Callistos(no offense, but that wasn´t a complete answer;))
  2. soxx101

    soxx101 Forum Connoisseur

    if you have so many bugs in game then you know that the team you have is noooo good at fixing them... is it that hard for it to sink in....
    test before adding, if still has bugs then dont just add it so you wont have ppl posting about it... common sense...
    sivak likes this.
  3. Callisto

    Callisto Forum Pro

    If everyone was given perfect characters on stablebuild, a "copy" of their live character (which they've banged money into) why would anyone decide to play live server?

    Also we already know the live servers are currently struggling with capacity, can you imagine people from all servers on stable build?

    Then there's the fact how would QA get peace to test anything out?

    Its under controlled conditions for a reason.

    And please remember stablebuild is a last step before live release, anything that makes it to stable with an error isn't probably going to be fixed by the time it goes live, by the time it makes it to stable, its already on the rota for release and its just finalising to make sure no major bugs are around.

    And yes some bugs only become apparent once things are on live, and that is why there is hotfixes.
  4. soxx101

    soxx101 Forum Connoisseur

    too many hotfixes to begin with, if it still has error and probably aint going to be fixed by the time it goes live, then dont put it in.....its not stable is it...
    sivak likes this.
  5. sivak

    sivak Forum Greenhorn

    Because test server is for testing - no warranty, no support, char can be deleted - refreshed from live server each week so any progress on test will be lost

    Yes I can. But it is test server, limited warranty. No problem if it will be laggy.

    To be honest if QA is working in this game I cant see any positive result. How they can make epic mount without speed ? How they can make a shield with Rubies ?
    How can they put to live servers patch which didn't fix anything and brought additional bugs ?

    Ok, tell me the reason. I'm waiting.

    And explain me, why dwarves were locked on test. To prevent testing dwarven skills like turrets ?

    Clap clap clap.
    soxx101 likes this.
  6. Hartvig

    Hartvig Forum Inhabitant

    Maybe i understood you wrong, but are you saying that TS is not even for testing?
    That the only thing you actually test is to see if the game loads and starts without exploding?
    So acu´tually, the devs don´t even wanna try to check for errors, issues and bugs?
    They just want the game to run without chrashing every 2 min(wich have happened on live severs).

    Callisto, they can´t handle it!
    Errors, lost connections and lag is a part of EVERY event now. I said it in the old danish forum, i said it to support, i say it again here:
    Upgrade the server or just buy a new and run the data from it instead of these old overloaded wrecks!
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2014
    trpajzl likes this.
  7. soxx101

    soxx101 Forum Connoisseur

    rofl i think you stumped them all they did was just remove your caps... that was an easy fix...
  8. TheInfamous

    TheInfamous Board Analyst

    An easier fix would be to not use caps. I believe it's stated in the rules that you can't do that because it imitates yelling and therefore rude behavior.

    @sivak If everyone was given duplicates of their accounts on the test server, and then deleted as you say, it'd be the same as not giving them at all. Counter-productive.

    Everyone complains so much about lag on live servers. Each of which has a lot higher capabilities than stablebuild, so if these players from all the servers would go into stablebuild, super-lag (as in you can't move at all... well, you can, technically, but you'll be thrown back anyways) , login issues/disconnections VERY frequent, and/or instant server crash.

    You can't see any positive effect because the problems that were fixed weren't bragged about in the forums (because one doesn't brag about one's job). In other words, you're only shown the negative impacts (known issues) so you can't jump to conclusions and assume they don't do work at all.

    There are too many reasons, some of which stated by Callisto, for me to type and explain.

    Take care.
  9. soxx101

    soxx101 Forum Connoisseur

    please dont type please please, we cant bare to read ... doesnt matter which you go on they all full of bugs, you can ignore if you wish but they are still there...
    its no good saying they are fixed or will be fixed when every time they try just more and more appear...

    as always
    Omeletnik likes this.
  10. TheInfamous

    TheInfamous Board Analyst

    What? Sorry if I'm rude but I don't understand your comment. It's as if no one wishes to give up their misled opinions even when given pretty good reasons to do so. But I've been told you can't change people's opinions, you have to let them change it themselves so I'll forget this thread and let you carry out your complaints until it goes against forum rules and gets closed.

    Take care.
  11. Hartvig

    Hartvig Forum Inhabitant

    Callisto, will you ever give me a clear, honest answer to my question?
    Why do BP release patches with bugs, when they know they are filled with bugs?
    I just want a clear answer! ;)
    Omeletnik, trpajzl and soxx101 like this.
  12. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Thought I am not religious I will give you one "customized" quote:

    "He who is bug-less shall write the first code"

    Shall we? ....
  13. trpajzl

    trpajzl Someday Author

    In every good software company is a process to fix bugs before new version of the product is launched.

    Bigpoint does not have testers, good programers and morever doesn't use test server for testing by players for free.

    They use community of players for free testing on LIVE! server.

    Now they introduced a pet INCREASING price by 5%.
    Is it only wrong label on the item or you'll buy items for normal price +5% ?

    Nobody knows, because BUGPOINT !!!!!!


    I agree. If Bigpointg start to use testing server for testing, they'd never bring a patch meant to fix 10 bugs and the result of the patch was, that 8 bugs were not fixed and 11th bug was introduced and needed hotfix.

    EDIT. Bigpoint had code of the game cleaner and better in the past.
    Last edited by moderator: Jan 28, 2014
    soxx101 likes this.
  14. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    By your statement it is clear that you know nothing about programming.

    Yes low budget companies are using community for testing. Sometimes community provides great help for the game that they love. For an example when Gothic 3 was launched it was full with bugs. But after the Community Patch the game was flawless.

    About that pet ... what is there not to understand?
    It gives +5% extra coins. It says selling not buying. So it means when you find ... lets say ring ... if its selling value is 100 silver ... when you sell it to the merchant you get 105 silver instead of 100.

    Yes there were fewer bugs in the past but contents as well.
  15. soxx101

    soxx101 Forum Connoisseur

    no game is flawless .......
  16. ZmajodBosne

    ZmajodBosne Active Author

    True, but this game is at the very bottom of the "no game is flawless" charts.
    Omeletnik likes this.
  17. Omeletnik

    Omeletnik Forum Greenhorn

    I can remember when Skyrim started. It was full of bugs but it was cleaner and cleaner patch after patch.

    Programers of bigpoint are trying to fix one thing and they spoil second and third thing and first thing remains unrepaired.

    And it's true. Low cost companies use open source for testing. Bigpoint use paying players for not-voluntary testing.

    Every new modification is source of new bugs and old bugs are not fixed at the same time.

    The game is going to die.
  18. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    You are comparing apples with pears.
    Skyrim is single player final product DSO is not final product. In DSO we get new contents over and over ...

    Everything is dying ... eventually. Are you going to live forever?
  19. soxx101

    soxx101 Forum Connoisseur

    skyrim is multiplayer get with it lol....
  20. I will try my hand at giving you an answer. I'm pretty sure you won't like it as you seem bound and determined to be upset with BigPoint on the subject of bugs.

    My opinion does not represent BigPoint's opinion or position, however it is a well reasoned argument for why it is the way it is.

    First off, MikeyMetro made some excellent points that I will not reiterate in fear of making a wall of text to rival his. (I might fail anyway.)

    My point is this.
    "A good solution applied with vigor now is better than a perfect solution applied ten minutes later." George S. Patton

    What General Patton was saying here is that if you wait for the perfect solution before execution of a plan, you will be waiting forever. (In real life, do you always have a perfect solution to present to your supervisor? Or do you do your best and just fix the issues that come to light as time goes on?) We always talk about tomorrow as if it is this mystical place where everything can be fixed, but in reality, no plan is ever perfect. There is always room for error. Instead, pushing a decent plan through and then controlling the fall out is much more effective.

    So that is what BigPoint does. They do what they can and their QA personnel do their best to test for everything they can think of. (Seriously, Who would have thought to try and put offensive gems in an off hand item?!?) With a game this complicated, it is no surprise that one line of code slightly mis-typed or poorly copied can have unintended consequences. From there, the developers need to hunt down the problem and find a way to fix it. Take the gingerbread shield for rangers as an example. When they were informed about the error, they fixed it so that you could no longer add offensive gems to it. They also needed to develop a script that would forcibly remove the gems from those items and return them to the players inventory... to my knowledge, this is something that has never been done in the game before and likely takes a lot of coding effort to achieve the desired result. An alternative is that they could have simply destroyed whatever gems were the item (I'm sure that would have been easier), but imagine your reaction to a move like that. Instead, the developers chose the harder road to both fix the issue and not flood support with hundreds of rangers upset about losing some expensive gems.

    On the topic of known issues, here is some food for thought. You realize that in those release notes that sometimes the known issues are edited in after the release come out and actually becomes "Known," Right? (Especially the nastier bugs that necessitate a hotfix, almost never do you see a major issue in the know issues pre release unless it is a carry over from a previous release that they haven't been able to correct.) And for issues that are know issues before a release comes out, they are not the ones that are game breaking. The upcoming R118 has two known issues (pre release). You may experience some lag picking up items if you use a lot of gem holders, and one (minor) quest cannot be completed. Neither of these is game breaking and because the developers acknowledg that it is a know issue, they save support and the mods a lot of trouble when people ask about those problems. Also, it lets the players know that it is receiving attention.

    I am sure that the developers take no joy in releasing bugs and are not malicious game deities that sit on high seeking new ways to frustrate their player base. However, they are not perfect and rely on feed back and patience when problems do arise. For this reason, when you do have problems, it is very important that you either provide plenty of details on the forums or contact support with the problem. Simply ranting about glitches will do nothing to fix them or prevent them in the future. Help the Drakensang Team help you and in the meantime be patient... it is a process, and on top of that, it takes time.

    I do hope that this helps you understand that bugs are a complicated issue that has a lot of attention from the developers. As a player, I share your frustration at the bugs that always seen to pop up, but, the way I see it, I would rather have the bugs over a game that stagnates and never improves. Improvements and bugs go hand in hand so as long as the developers give us new content and features, we will keep seeing bugs. You can't have one without the other.

    Also, on a final personal note, watch where you point the finger. I know I am not perfect so how can I reasonably expect the developers to be. So, unless you never make any mistakes while preforming a complicated task, do a little self reflection and see if you really have any right expecting perfection from a team of normal human beings who do their best to deliver you a quality game for you to enjoy.
    Rory34390 and Guitarman like this.
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