R191

and that's why I opened thread on my main language forum to ask to trigger the explosion just when the ea hits a wall/player/mob/etc (following ultrapinlich thread)..


Sad part is that now i'm kinda forced to use that skill too, otherwise there is a really low chance to kill some player.

 

Actually also mages could have found the bug by themselves because, as I assumed the second after you made me notice it, the bug wasn't related to a specific class but to a specific formula so blaim yourself as well.

It's quite funny to call this a "dwarf" bug when the bug is related to a specific formula and it's also funny to say that "no single dwarf reported" it because, actually was a dwarf (me) that gave you all the specific information you asked as soon as someone made me notice the problem and, btw, I posted on that topic more pictures than you did (other than givin more explanation on what was the source of the bug).

I make also another prediction: once the patch will come live, even more than before, tanks will look for dwarfs and only dwarfs to party with because, when you got the bug, a single dwarf could carry a party with lower Damage Dealers (DD). Now that a single dwarf (not even 2) will be able to carry the lower DDs, the lower DDs will be ditched out even harder than before.
The problem atm is that tanks aren't able to tank as they used to and they will always look for the highest/dps - fastest kill because it's less resource expender.

The fix of the bug is well deserved, the result of this fix will be that things will be even worse than before.

 

I have to disagree with this. It's definitely not worse for those who has been excluded from the groups for lv4 especially (read : Ranger and SW) still I think there is work to be done. The crit nerf in Infernal has to go or changed to damage.
In the end I'm glad that the team is addressing this issue, job were done pretty fast
from the push of community. Remember this when you are next time saying
"DSO never listen community"

 

Sorry but if you think this you are either delusional or completely biased. Also how can you think this is in any way bad for the other DPS classes with regards to grouping.. LOL.
And it is rightly called Dwarf Bug because any damage the wolf/guardian deals is completely negligible, they are tactical skills in pve (pvp is a non-issue obviously) whereas for dwarfs its about 90% of their total DPM.

 

You are clearly not getting things straight. Is there a single mage who would ever watch the damage dealt by his guardian on essences? I would never ever pay attention to it. I would test ice sphere vs lighting strike, ice vs magic missile, but guardian... No comments.

I do not see how they listen. Their quality control is questionable, as this bug was their for years. And they are fixing it after people screaming about it in every language forum and Facebook.

However, not a single time a DSO individual has shown up here and said
1. Yes, we recognize the problem, dwarfs are indeed many times stronger in PvE comparing to others.
2. Yes, we recognize the problem of critless setups dwarfes use
3. Yes we recognize the infernal debuff is unfair.
4. Yes we recognize the new dwarf will never catch up the old dwarfs with sapphires.
5. Yes, we have the improvements to all of the above on the roadmap, and they are roughly X releases away.

That would be listening. That would be a feedback loop. That would also be fair for everyone including dwarfs. Imagine one day they make the turrets crit and cut their dmg by 80%. That would freak me out as a dwarf.

Right thing to do is show up here, Mr. Clayton, and say Dear Dwarfs, unfortunately things are broken, and need to be addressed. You will no longer be critless class. But we will give you three months to restructure, recfaft helmets and adornments, etc. But the change has to be made, and it will be made.

That would be listening, Mr. Clayton.

 

Because who decides how the party will be formed is the tank.
The more time you need to kill the boss the more the tank will look for another party.
ATM a single dwarf can well cover the flaws of the others DDs, after the patch he will not and a tank will prefer even more than before to group with the fastes ones.

This patch, won't make any other DD better, this patch will make the best DDs needed even more than before.

No it's not, in fact other skills were involved, tactical or not. Just remind I was the one that pointed out where was the problem.

And there was a single dwarf that would have questioned the results showed in the character window?
As you also confirmed, the datas showed in the character windows has always been correct, the damge of turrets do fluctuate a lot and the ticks fade away pretty fast.
All the tests I did were done when I started to play the game and didn't have enough resurces to create the specific conditions but as soon any imput about the problem was made plenty of proofs were posted.

You assume all the players that use a dwarf are "sneaky bug abusers" while it's probably exactly the opposite: they play the game and trust the things the game shows them and the character windows was showing that essence were boosting the DPS as it should with any other class or any other skill.

What should we say about RA and SW that used the Q7 bug then?

Take a chill pill mate, I can bet whatever you want that 99% of the dwarfes around just play for the fun and there's no conspiracy or "dwarf affair" around.

 

Well imho, that is a theory only and time will tell. One thing that IS occuring though is a very large gap reduction in DPM potential between the classes, this in no way hurts the other classes. My theory is that for every DK that 'chooses' the team in your line of thinking, there will be another DK that thinks "Well lets just take some of the other classes instead, since the difference is not as large now"

 

Ah right, dwarfs never paid attention... sure...

https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/mechanical-turret-and-tactical-turret-damage-bug.72185/

 

It's a good idea, but i can't say i completely agree with triggering the explosion "unless" it hits. In pvp and pve, the range of the dwarf and the mage are greater. Take for example, magic missile vs hunting arrow. The particle of the magic missile is slightly greater than that of the hunting arrow, which allowed mages to bug bosses by simply standing further away and undetected. Meanwhile the ranger could not use this same technique. Same thing with fireball and precision shot. In pvp this makes a huge difference. People learn how to abuse this range difference. The funny thing is...a ranger has less attack range compared to other 2 ranged classes. The explosion from explosive arrow definitely helped even things up. Perhaps, a fair fix would to be to trigger the explosion even if it does not hit an enemy/object/thing, but have it not deal the full 250% unless it actually does hit an enemy. That is the best compromise i would make/say...as a ranger main i would hate to see that. Anyways i do understand the annoying explosions, but it can still be dodged with sufficient move speed and skills like dive, teleport, jump.

 

The range is supposed to be identical. If it's not, it can be made so.

EA deals far more dmg than fireball to compare them, and has far more radius of hit. I'm fine with much less dmg on the edge of the hit area, however. The further you are, the less dmg you get. Either way will help to avoid this spam play. This concept is already in the game for ice sphere and Singularity. Not sure why didn't they apply the same to EA.

 

EA deals more damage, but at the same time it consumes twice the amount of essence and twice the amount of concentration vs mana cost for fireball. It makes sense to have such a high damage for this skill. Not only are most ranger skills, "conditional;" it will not do double damage if enemies are not marked leaving the first part of the effect much less compared to the second part. You have to realize that rangers cannot regenerate concentration like mages using magic missile or dwarfs running around with their regenerative turrets. Once we fire a skill that cost 66 concentration we are very vulnerable and we have to wait for it to regenerate. If that skill misses we are pretty much screwed when mages fire countless fireballs and regenerate mana via magic missile to fire more. Once again, I have complained about the attack range of skills 2-3 years ago and the change has never been made. Not to mention at lv45, when hunting arrow cost concentration to fire...that was the worst part of ranger history. Magic missile itself doesn't and can be scaled to deal more damage than hunting arrows.

 

Completely agree, although this is not a new problem for DSO and sadly won't be the last problem.

I must be playing a different game than you are. As a DK my sole purpose in DSO is to spam the aggro button while others get to have fun killing things.

If the dwarfs choose to allow some other class in their group, they choose, they do not ask the DK what they think.

Everyone wants the dwarf (maybe that will change now the essence works the same for everyone) but we'll see.

On Tegan I routinely see players begging for dwarfs, no one is asking for mages, no one is asking for rangers, and no one is asking for 2H dk's. There are plenty of 3/4/5 dwarf groups running around.

 

Tbh, I'm tired of this topic. We talk PvP. Who cares about the cost of essences? What is the EA cost of resources? 66? Or does it go down to 50? So 50 vs 33. Plus people have peridots. Plus there are many ways to make more concentration. Plus some of you weapons have 20% less concentration. Plus new khalys set will bring another 10-20% less. Archers can shot 4-5 EA without adrenaline. Okay, mage can shot those fireballs forever. But who cares, if it was 1 vs 2, okay, some difference. 2 vs 3 is already not that big. But many vs 2x many makes no difference if archer can cover the whole 1v1 map with those explosions in a burst, and each of them deal damage in a large area, and each could be deadly, and it is with the archers I play with despite my enormous defensive stats.

Not even saying you need to stay to shot all those fireballs. Hit hard and run wins vs hit many.

The reasoning behind making EA to deal so much damage was it's original cost. With all the new candies like q7 set, it is no longer a valid reason.

But anyway, if it only was damage if hit. Okay, I can live with that. But 5 EA into hallway in 5v5 from the outside when you cannot be seen, makes zero sense to me. It is not what I would call a 'skill'.

Btw, I'm also against the fireball burn on area instead of a char, I'm also against the stupid ice sphere so that the attack speed has nothing to do with it, also against the 2h DK suicides with the slow down, and dwarfs is sure whole another topic. There are many [EDIT] 'skills' in the game that are skill-less. That's my point. To make it skillful, add more damage if marked, less damage if not, less or no damage if didn't hit etc. But, we can argue to death here, they are 'listening'. So no matter who is right and who is wrong, I do not anticipate any changes...

 

If you talk about q7 set for pvp, it makes not much difference now since they fixed it. Not to mention rangers have only become competitive in pve because of the set. Imagine mage not being able to regenerate mana. Using 2h rangers reach similar damages to mage with 2h weapons. For instance, a ranger has 120 concentration and he reduced his concentration to 50 cost EA per shot. The ranger will only be able to fire 2. Now imagine your mage, you hit 2 lightning and you cannot use magic missile to regenerate mana. Now you are very awkward standing in place. If your magic missile also cost you mana you have nothing to do, because you are mana-less. That is the predicament that rangers are in when they fight bosses.

Q7 is a "necessity" for rangers to farm fast. While mages can still use sets like q4 set to do sufficient damage, regenerate mana, do more lightning, repeat. Rangers fire 2 shots EA with 2h bow and we're done unless we use adrenaline, which you have teleport. Comparing the 2 skills, Adreanline and Teleport, we know that TP has lower CD.

Find me a ranger who can do more than 3 EA shots with 2h without using q7 buff....
Most rangers face the awkward situation of having insufficient concentration to use in boss rooms. Fire 2 shots and wait for adrenaline...Most awkward play style...unless you want to go up to the boss and hit close range which is obviously not a good idea in higher difficulties.

Anyways...end of discussion. The thing with rangers is balancing their pve and pvp play. if that cannot be done it is pointless to continue this discussion.

 

Every single dwarf lives in his own pinky world, dmg/speed voila.
How can you compare wolves/guardian to your main skills?
Your essence cost is nothing compared to other classes, every nub(including me when i won't spend my resources) begging for dwarf mostly for this;
another plus is that you deal the dmg even when you running around, just open your eyes and realize it.
OP characters from other classes do solo everything with not that much ess than dwarf, but in group everything is different
+ how much time/money you need to make an op RA ?))

Arena.
Arena is whole different story, there must be done comparrison between highly skilled OP characters, and again there is strategy
for every class;
Your complaining about EA is like a bad joke I mean this is not even funny when you see the whole picture))
One mid RA with new 2h bow can shoot 1 max 2 EA's and you can't avoid this?
(mech's eat their own sh....s when q7 set "was" bugged xD - "was" cuz bug contiunues but not the good one xD)
While SW shoot many fireballs; have best unstun skills; and this - you can't see the EA? How about player to come to you and stay for 2 mins, maybe you will be able to kill him, m?
I not see the EA too but i predict what oponent will do and try to avoid it, ***.. what game you play.. every DK complain about this too xD mech too... cuz there is no map with color point huh xD...
what to say about skilled mech? Big att speed, hiding behind every single thing, 2 guns shoot you all the time, and if mech
have a little brain It can short the distance between him and his oponent one rocket and oponent is down, this is win win story all the time 1v1,5v5 etc.;
So in 5v5 you cant recognize mech's high speed bullets too when you run close enough 3-4 of them are hitting you already xD..
Arena is not an PW end boss you cant stay at one place and wait to win)))
Little more... everyone who did not have skill for other classes become mech and feel satisfied simply cuz game give everything on easy mode to them. But playin with this midget is not beautifull at all.
And again what game you play?

P.S.
With all the useles talks about classes, think about what the BP was doing when create the dwarf; 3 classes with same needings except one, someone is not finish well his work; about those 3 classes everyone have pros/cons, so...
- "Don't hate the class; hate the BP" xDD...

Cheers.

 

Brining gear into the discussion of skills/mechanics is absurd. Nerf a skill for a new player with farmed gear because another long time and/or cash player has a pw set with transferred gold lines? Ridiculous.

If a skill is not working as per it's description and the game mechanics then that's a bug and needs to be addressed. Period. End of story.

If a skill is unbalanced that is an entirely different discussion, subjective and open for debate.

Luck be with ye,
Mikey,
Tegan

 

Unfortunately, that's not true about DSO. Ice bolt and ice bolt plus Sigi set is another example. Either isn't balanced, the first being crap, the latter slightly too much. We didn't start this conversation, BP did by introducing weird bonuses. Otherwise, I would agree with you.

Another reason it's not as black and white as you describe is the complexity of balance of skills in the the low to mid to high range of setups. What might be completely useless for beginners, might be OP for the end gamers. Lifekeeper is useless without tons of HP and block. DK healing skill is useless without the damage. So is it balanced? Should we seek balance at the 100dsp level or 20000 dps?

Things are a little bit more complicated, my only point.

The balance between the ease of the use of the skill, it's power and it's cost is also a complex stuff. EA with all its dmg with 100 concentration is one thing, but with all the candies it's whole different story.

So should be see the balance of EA as per newbie char, or the end game?

I do want to agree with you, fundamentally, but it's not the case with the game we play. It's rpg, players do have gear. And gems. And it all comes together.

PS. I'm not sure why he brought the comparison, I was only talking about the explosion part of the EA and the way it triggers, as well as the hit area. I did not want to have another 'this is op' kind of a conversation. Had too much already in Haruki thread. So enjoy your candy, piece)

 

lol...
I am the last person to get into the fervent, self-righteous class warfare (see what i did there), but I will say, as a historically oppressed ranger, that not everyone is top, and every class has its intricacies. I could say dwarfs are weak in pvp, but even that is subjective. I could say everyone except dk is weak in 3v3 and 1v1 against a good dk. except then there are people like wigger. so in the end, this stuff will keep changing and thats what makes it fun. play for fun, not to wage an internet crusade against the devs.

let loose your tirades against the real oppressors, the capitalists...

jk

 

What this awesome dude said:

I ... for an example ... will never use Hoaxbows or q7 set.
They don't wan't to pull off their heads out of the sand ... and admit that PVP and PVE MUST be separated. But no... they will do everything else just to stick to their theory. Balancing a game with few weapons/sets. Skills are making the balance not the weapons.

BTW whoever named those bows as "siege bows" doesn't even have a clue what a siege bow or siege weapon is. Check medieval weapons.
Therefore it will always be a hoaxbow.

Here comes daywanker2 ... again


PS. they fixed the ranger's alleged "bug" (double damage) ... but what about the other classes? What about their double damage?

 

He wants lighting strike nerfed too, because as he says it deals 500k dmg per hit )

This is what happens when you takes someone's candy. Daywaker screaming in two forums across multiple threads)