Feedback GAME REBALANCING FEEDBACK THREAD

You could go and kill an inf3 boss solo naked just to proof that it's possible... But is that really the point?
Compare a ranger without the broken q7 set (which unfairly outperforms all other sets) to a 2h DK built with q7, q4 or bloodrune, at a same character development level. You will see that DK is a lot more efficient at boss killing, as he doesn't have to hit and run and doesn't have a chance to miss his skills. Also, q7 ranger depends entirely on luck at boss kills: if net cooldown isn't started very often, he is more efficient than a DK... but that is rare, at common rates, even the ratio from the skill description: 4 times no cooldown - 6 times with the cooldown, you will be less efficient than a DK. Not even saying that you can get terribly unlucky and get the cooldown every time, then you will fall behind by even, even more. Also no mage build is that unstable, thus can be better calculated, and since the most powerful mage skills (LS and FS) are aimed at a specific position, the difference between mage and DK when the slowing doesn't work gets even higher.

 

Here are some feedback on Boss changes:

The Herald of the Anderworld
Base Damage increased by 50%
Melee Attack (Swing) - Damage increased by 33%

- This is not a welcome change. The Herald already hits very hard and he do a lot of damage to a Tank. Increasing base Damage by 50% means, all his attacks would be devastating. Not only that he has a very strong melee attack, but all his attacks are very strong. The fire attack, the EarthQuake, the floating Bomb, etc. I definitely think Herald is not a boss that You should make more difficult.
- Melee attacks would now hit x 1.5 x 1.33 = 2.0 times harder than before. That is too much.
My suggestion is Not to Increase base damage and Not to increase Melee attack damage. But, it is OK to increase Flame Orb and Meteor damage.

Sigrismarr, Twisted Priest of Fjalnir

Ice Resistance increased by 200%
Lightning Resistance increased by 200%

- Mages attack bosses using either Ice Sphere or Lightning. Now with this increase, how are Mages suppose to kill Sigris?
I disagree with such an Increase. Yes, I understand Sigris is a Load of Ice and Lightning, but Mages do not have another form of strong attack. Either reduce this resistance or give a new spell to Mages that can do another form of attack. You can't be simply expecting Mages will use Meteor and Magic Missiles to kill Sigris.

Bearach, Champion of the Wilds

Bee Swarm Attack - Damage increased by 100%

- You must be kidding me. This Swarm attack is a devastating attack and can one hit most people. Only people who would get hit from this attack is a Tanking DK. No body else will ever get hit by this unless by accident, by a mistake or due to lag. Basically You are telling, Don't tank this boss any more. I have no idea why and I disagree with this change. If anything should be done, it should be to reduce the damage and not to increase the damage of this attack.

 

Ahahaha, you think, that inf3 boss is able to kill by any naked char solo? They weren't created to kill by naked char...
If you can't kill them solo mean that you are not ready for solo boss-killing... Or not ready to kill on that difficult... Kill them in group, with tank...

wat? ) are you serious? )

Also DK is 100% mDD, therefore DK need to be close to any boss during kill. Any other DD is able to kill boss from distance. Tank is more efficient on boss killing only after he can get 2-3 hits before death. Its impossible to one-shot tank to kill boss (without death), but for ranger, mage & dwarf -- possible.

 

you can slow them, stun them and break their armor so there are no hard bosses anymore

 

Armor break was never working on bosses with R208/9

 

Why does the mage have the slowest dps at bosses? (even with the +100% dmg buff to the lightning). I don't understand how the mage is the weakest class when it comes to damage output when mage is supposed to be the fastest!
Let's take an example: mage with 120 mana and q4 set: he shoots 3 lightning strikes =550%*3 (that's if the boss sits in place, but many times the boss will move or teleport, like for example Bearach, Herald, Grimmag, Arachna, Heredur, Mortis, Khalys). Then he uses teleport to replenish 120 mana and use another 3 LS, that's another 550%*3. That's 6 lightning strikes and then you start to shoot magic missiles for 100% dmg per shot until you gain more mana for another LS and until your teleport resets after 10 seconds so you can use it to replenish for another 3 LS.
Now let's take ranger with 120 concentration: he fires 2 Explosive shots for 500%*2, then he uses net and his DMG increases by 150% AND he uses another 3-5 Explosive Shots, depending on his speed which is 3*500% or 4*500% or 5*500%
If he's lucky his net is not triggered so he can do another 3-5 * 500%
And his net has also a much lower cooldown than meteor (if we compare to mages with q7).
The big difference is that mages don't have free mana to spam LS and neither the 150% extra dmg.
If mages try to use q7 to get the 150% dmg, they still don't have the free mana to spam, also the meteor reset time is 1 minute and if you try to reset it faster by staying inside the vortex, that's very hard during boss fights because they spam meteors, nukes, lightning strikes all the time.
So the mage has a very hard time first to remain inside the vortex in order to reset the meteor and second to make bosses to stay in one place to take all the dmg from the lighting strikes.
Rangers can use their explosive shot + net + q7 set much easier and more efficient than mages.
The 2h DKs are also very good damage dealers with q7 set + very good end game gear, attack speed and damage. They can spam their smash attack soooo fast and almost non stop + they have regeneration and more hp so they're able to tank infernal bosses.
Dwarves also kill very fast, much faster than mages.
No matter how you do the math, no matter what sets, skills, settings you tweak, no matter how you view it, the mage will always kill a boss 2-3 times slower than any other char with the same gear and gems from another class.
Why is that and what does the mage have in exchange for that? Does the mage have it better in maps? He does have 1 good aggro skill, the mind control which is very useful in higher levels because you get a few seconds time to do some dmg without any of the mobs attacking you. The ranger doesn't have that, the 2h DK doesn't have that either, but if he's op he doesn't need it. The dwarf has a similar skill but not as efficient as MC.
The mage also has singularity which is very useful and can be combined with mind control to get it almost 100% of the time. That's very useful.
Maybe the devs think that these advantages on the maps outweight the fact that the mage is so crappy in the boss fights, but in reality all the other classes can clear the maps just as fast, if not faster even without the aggro mind control skill, the vortex, the guardian (which is useless in higher infernals since it's a 1 shot). When the net is triggered, 3-4 explosive shots are more than enough to put down a pack of mobs on inf 3 for a high end ranger.
Maybe you're thinking that the 350% ice sphere spammable skill that regenerates mana is very good for maps which the other classes don't have.
Well, I guess this would be the best for doing sustained dmg on maps out of all the classes.
But in reality, is the mage doing the maps 3 times faster than all the other classes because of this spammable ice sphere?
If not, then why is the mage 3 times slower during boss fights?
What is the logic behind that?
I don't want any class nerfed, I only did the comparisons so you can better understand how weak the mage is in boss fights.
I don't want subjective arguments from crybaby kids. Math doesn't lie, look at the math, test it for yourself and you will see that what I'm saying is 100% true and if you don't agree with me, give pertinent objective arguments, show that you have analyzed the problem from multiple points of view, not only from your own (like Moot said that mage's ice sphere should be reduced to 266% dmg and the mana regeneration to be taken away... if that happens then what does that leave to mages? NOTHING, mage would be total garbage. What kind of argument is that, Moot? do you even brain? )
So I would suggest to take some dmg from the ice sphere and buff the lightning strike or the bonus from q4 set to be comparable to ranger's 500% dmg with ES + 150% more dmg and free concentration for 2 seconds.
OR, give the mage better mana consumption, make the lightning strike use less mana.
Devs, please don't just buff or nerf skills without testing for yourselves first.
Take a mage with 30k dmg, 80% crit and x5 crit dmg and 2.36 attack speed and see how fast you can kill a boss.
Then do the same with a ranger, 2h DK or dwarf. You should tweak the skills until you get similar results for all classes with mage being AT LEAST as fast as all the others!
Thank you for reading my feedback! I know your time is valuable but so is mine. Why should I kill a boss with violet essence in the same time it takes all the other classes to kill with green?

 

group auras and effects has no assigned points but are still active

 

It sucks if they remove the ingredients bag they would put in game, it would clog our inventory with more things

Devs, put back the crafting bag, it was a good addition
And put back gem crafting

 

hi and sorry for the bad english in advance.
I don t understund why so many mages ask to nerf ice sphaire in favor of lighting strike, i am a mage too. I agree that mages are the most underpowered class in the game and i am not sure if those changes are enough to get mage equal with the other three classes. the main plroblem with mage mage as i understund it is that the high damaged skills are very slow to cast it and required the boss to be static, so the damage that dealed over the time is not enough for fast boss kiles. The lighting strike never could been equal to explosive arrow, because of this difference, in moovement bosse you have to run around till make the boss to stop. For example in herrald, especially at the start you can hit him when he comes on you with 2-3 ice sphaires and only with one lighting strike if you are luky. The only high damage attack to hit movement targets is ice sphaire, dont ask to nerf it, 350% damage is not so op for 40 mana( in movement bosses you can t take advantage of the 10 mana at explosion). lighting strike it wiill be ok if they make it to go straight forward and not fallen from sky. And don t ask mages to get improved only under the prism of q4 set. The best is to improved some skills and to have a variety of sets to use.

 

Because went q4 to be equal with q7 not weaker . Right now on live servers FS deals 266 in explosion BUT untill it explodes it hits the mobb/ boss with atleast 1 time while travelling so 266 + 50 = 310 > than 300 (charged lightning )> 250 normal lightning.
Even with the new 5pts update moving bosses will never get hit. If we take into account the fact that while solo p[laying you can predic where the boss is going you can just shoot the FS in the "perfect " spot so the boss gets hot wit h1 the travel dmg and explosion.
So the math looks like this on test server : 50+350 = 400 DMG and + 10 mana from hit.
While on moving bosses casting lightning means for you to calculate where the boss will go + 2-3 seconds for the thunder to fall + the boss needs to be electrified , something you cant keep up with while running from the boss.

[/QUOTE="potre, post: 686378, member: 196054"]( in movement bosses you can t take advantage of the 10 mana at explosion). [/QUOTE]

This is because you just know how to use the spell corrcetly i guess , Im always getting the + 10 mana

No. we dont look through q4 but lightning for the cost and time it takes MUST be stronger than FS since Fs scales with atack speed while LS falling doesnt and it doesnt give 10 mana and doesnt deal max dmg on the first hit + it deals less dmg on the side. So ye FS on test server gets too much of a range buff and thus making thunder useless which is stupid. I f you want to play safe use q4 adn thunder if you want to play suicide squad and go to the boss for max dmg use q7 this is how it should be not uhh im q7 Lemme throw FS from the end of the map and deal insane dmg from insane range.[/QUOTE]

Conclusion FS should be for horde of monsters cuz spammability , while Ls for high single target dph


So armor break doesnt work and wont anymore ?

 

Heror, Then ask for buff for lightning . Do not ask to nerf FS... my god . DO you guys even read that annoucments that certain bosses will have more lightning, other more ice resistance(sometimes both) -> One actually might need to change the used "Main damage skill" based on boss. So I find it incredibly stupid to ask for nerf on one skill to favor other.

Buff the lightning bit more is enough. Nobody needs to touch FS

PS. I'm currently using q4. I still find it more efficient on bosses on test server than q7

 

if they buff lightning too on top of FS all other classes will cry about mage needing to be nerfed. And im afaraid of that to be honest

 

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I don t understund why we have to compare FS with LS. If you thing that LS must deal more dmg, just ask it , is so simple. But why you have to trade it with something else? And why q4 must be a safe option and q7 a suicide one? i didn t get you. i don t even care to compare the skills and sets of the mage. i care to be the same effective as the other classes be. Rangers can hit with explosive arrow from distance under the q7 buff, why not mages, how we become equal? And finaly let the other classes to be complained if something it s to op , i can t explain why mainly mages ask FS to get nerfed

 

I don t understund why we have to compare FS with LS. If you thing that LS must deal more dmg, just ask it , is so simple. But why you have to trade it with something else? And why q4 must be a safe option and q7 a suicide one? i didn t get you. i don t even care to compare the skills and sets of the mage. i care to be the same effective as the other classes be. Rangers can hit with explosive arrow from distance under the q7 buff, why not mages, how we become equal? And finaly let the other classes to be complained if something it s to op , i can t explain why mainly mages ask FS to get nerfed[/QUOTE]

but rangers get 2 EA while mages get 4 FS and without the q7 buff ranger cant compete with mage. And with the new FS 350 ? didnt you read wha i write above ? A skill like FS which gives mana for hit is kinda spammable thus means because of spammability it should not have insane range.

About the close= more dps , only archers make an exception because q7 + EA is their only valid combo in terms of set (Although rangers like traki know how to play without sets). Dwarfs need to wait their rocket to hit , tanks must litterary stay one place for 3 secs ( althpugh because of the endless ehal they dont loose too much) so why should mages get 150 dmg for 9 SECONDS NOT 3 + SPAMMABLE ABILITY + INSANE DPS + INSANE Range ( on test server). Im a mage but the combo of this 4 things= busted af. Sorry but buffing so much FS is pretty much buffing q7 and making it better even for q4 set users.
Why kill the diversity of the skills that a mage has.

P.s Even if we want for it to be nerfed to 300 ITS STILL A BUFF ( 266 live servers vs 300 test,,,,,math people)

 

heror, 150% dmg for 9 SECONDS (NOT 2 like Rangers) + Spammable ability + INSANE DPS + INSANE RANGE looks very good on paper, but it doesn't look so good in practice, mainly because during those 9 seconds you don't have unlimited mana and also because those 9 seconds have a 1 minute cooldown reduction which is VERY HARD TO RESET ON INFERNAL MODES because all the bosses spam nukes and meteors and ice balls which means you have to constantly run away from your vortex. It's not like ranger's net which has much lower cooldown + 40% chance to not trigger + free concentration.

If you've been playing a mage for some time I'm sure you've grouped with many engdame players from other classes and you've noticed how much faster they kill the boss compared to you (granted they had similar stats).

So what is true from your argument? 9 seconds is not that much, you need to cast many skills in that time and you don't have unlimited mana and you have 1 minute reset (or 30 seconds if you use mind control). This is overall still less than rangers' 2 seconds.

Spammable ability? You can't spam during boss fights (maybe if you had like 400 mana).
Insane DPS. Where? What does the mage have that gives him insane dps that the other classes can't get?

Insane range... Yes this is useful, but without free mana and 150% dmg to support it, it's useless.


I also suggested that LS should be buffed in favor of the ice sphere and yes I said that mostly because I wanted the q4 set to be balanced with the q7 set. But I don't mind if they buff LS without nerfing ice sphere. The devs need to buff whatever skills they need to buff to make the mage competitive with the other classes in terms of boss killing time!

From what I understand, the devs keep every class with a few big disadvantages to create like a rock-paper-scissors balance between the classes. For example, the mage is really easy to play with in pvp, if you get the q7 set you can spam fireballs all day. Get the q8 set and you can also spam ice missiles all day. So I think mages with good gear can have a lot of easy fun in pvp. BUT the disadvantage is that the mage is gargabe for boss farming. I'm not sure if this weakness is on purpose or if it's out of pure ignorance and incompetence on devs' part.

For example the DKs have a hard time when they are just starting out, they need more inventory space since they need 2 sets (for tank and DPS), their weapons drop harder (at least it used to be this way, I'm not sure this has remained the same since I haven't played this class in a long time), they don't have range (which is only a problem for newbie DKs, but for endgame chars it doesn't matter anymore, in my view, since their huge dmg and huge hp allows them to plow through any infernal setting)

The ranger doesn't have aggro skills, can't control large groups of mobs, but this also is mostly a problem for beginner rangers. Because for endgame rangers, they have the defense to just mark the mobs with blade dance (without dying because the mobs attack them before they even land at the destination point).


You see, it's very complicated to balance classes, because you are comparing apples to oranges.
What I think is the best approach is to buff and nerf skills on paper AND THEN TEST THEM IN ACTION.
But I doubt the devs actually play this game. Skills and sets look in a way on paper, but when you use them they don't always give you the expected results.

So it's really easy: You should do a few tests like: How fast can all classes clean an inf3 map? (with best gear and similar stats)
How fast can all classes kill an inf3 boss? (with best gear and similar stats)
How much actual dmg can all classes do on a static object / mob in 1 minute?
How much actual dmg can all classes do on a moving object / mob in 1 minute?

If there are differences in time, what other bonuses does the class with low time get? so we can say it's balanced with all the others?

 

did they remove the armor break and things like q8 set for mages to proc on bosses ?

 

There was never armor break working on bosses "feature" with R208/9

I was playing PW and Dragan event on TS ... they are much easier compared to live servers.
They can be stunned and they are also dealing lesser damage (because of the new talents).
Dragan was usually one hitting me or leaving me small amount of HP just to survive , before the new changes ... and now I can take 3-4 hits. All that in Infernal III.

 

[image removed]

 

was asking if the q8 set of sigrismar actually lowers the mana cost of FS and LS on test thats all

 

That is the Dailybuild version not R208/9

Not anymore