PVP is going GEARLESS!?@#

@piteris2 i understand that you are very passionate about pvp but I am not sure why you are attacking Rhysingstar. I have not read any posts where Rhysingstar has attacked pvp or even endorsed any changes. In fact Rhysingstar has posted several times that if DSO does decide to introduce a gearless pvp that they should also retain existing gameplay so people would have choice.

Rhysingstar has simply been saying that change will not impact on him and no more nerfs. Fair enough

For me personally I hope that DSO do not change the existing pvp. Currently I am very much in the casual play group and only play pvp if I get clover for DQ. However I can understand the time and effort taken to improve gear and one day hope to have gear sufficient to participate.
Cheers
Zolty (Tegan)

 

They are unable to understand the simple fact that I do not want a moba or anyone nerfed and because they have nothing else, they feel the need to attack me like it was my idea to change pvp to a moba.

I do not think a moba is the right idea, but again IF we have to have it, adding to pvp would be the best solution.

However, their poor attempts at trash talk almost make me want to change my mind and support changing it to a moba just so they would be completely unhappy.

 

Not 100% sure I am right here so if I am wrong feel free to point it out
We are loosing all our farmed equipment gems runes etc for PVP so all will be given the same equipment for PVP ?
If this is the case why farm for hours on end to get better ?
The only reason I farm so much is to catch the cash players yes I am F2P and I love PVP
If I can not use the equipment I have farmed for PVP why farm ?
There is no point to me to farm for farming sakes it is the most boring thing going
If we are just farming to get better for PVE not PVP there is know point to the game
Once again if I am wrong about what I think I have read and heard feel free to point it out

 

I was just turning the question to you

You missed the first part of my post:

PvE lovers and PvP lovers have just two different preferences. Being preferences means they are subjective.
I don't put myself in any of those two macro-groups since I'm still playing DSO just because it became an habit.

I said skills, intended as the ability to use your character well, are not necessary, or better, are useless.
This days you can have huge cooldowns reduction, so skills rotation is much more easy to handle, also you can improve your defensive stats by a lot, while keeping dps very high -(if someone has the bright idea of linking me one of those characters in the first pages of "showcase your char" to try say something like «also back in lv45 there were high defensive stats and high dmg», I already tell you that you are wasting time. Even if you had top stats, if you weren't good at playing your toon, your char would have died like someone with 3k hp. Something that now isn't happening anymore.)- and that kills the chances of winning for anyone that is undergeared.

I only mentioned Fireballs as one of the Skills available for SWs.
About "spamming" I mostly refere to 1v1, 5v5 and 6v6 since those modes are full of players that "just click one button".

Don't put in my mouth something I didn't say.
I compared the "old" PvP to today's PvP while talking about skills/abilities/being good at playing, how you wanna call it.

I said two things about PvE:

1. I'm not "only PvE" player;
2. "Only PvE" players aren't in the right, just like those who think PvE is made ony to be the way to grant them the access to the Olympus of DSO PvPers.

None of them are in any way similiar to what you wrote.

Never said the opposite.

I hope you are talking about your opponent's character, not the skin and flesh one .
Althrough I agree with you for what you said about mobs, I believe that winning a match in 10 seconds in DSO means only that your opponent is weak af and you have bad aim (same here, with the "you in general" thing).

That's why democracy is stupid I mean, about "majority wins"

Sad to break your heart like this, but you heard well

 

The vast majority farm a lot, spend your money to stay strong, to excel in pvp, if you make everyone have the same set in pvp, then the previous two do not make more sense in existing, simple like that.

 

And I answered it

Also, I was referencing this:

I assumed that you meant PvP had no skill (while PvE did) so that is why I answered like I did.

This epicaricacy of yours is very worrying; I wouldn’t be proud of displaying such tendencies myself, as you seem to be (based on your above comment). Not only that but it won’t make you very popular here on the forum given that most of the playerbase includes heavy PvPers. Again, taking pleasure in other’s unhappiness is not something that will make you popular in life (or DSO), on the contrary, it will make you very unapproachable and people will hesitate to talk to you.

And when you have no valid points to argue, you dismiss my points as “trash talk”. Therefore, debating with you and people like you is unproductive, pointless and is simply a waste of my time.

 

Good afternoon.


Our efforts on PvE are meant to get strong enough to play PvP at the highest end game lvl. If there's no reason to get stronger...no reason to farm endless PvE.


I shall wait some more time before judging this news, but it has got to be taken very carefully. I'm sure BP does not want to shoot itself in the foot (again). (which doesn't mean they won't).

 

Why can't you pvp fanatics see that it's you who decided the meaning of your efforts in pve is to get stronger in pvp?

Some do not see being a stronger pvper as their objective in the game, it's you who decided for yourself that pvp is your objective in the game

Infact you could ignore pvp and you'll be completely fine, because the bulk of the contents of this game is in pve

 

Don’t you realise that DSO would be dead if it wasn’t for PvP? Why do you think people spend hours upon hours farming non-stop for items, glyphs, keys, etc., then crafting legendaries out of their hard-earned loot with 4x gold stats, then finally upgrading them to max level? If you think all this is done for PvE, then you have no idea what the game is all about. You certainly don’t need equipment that is anything near to what I described above to be able to farm PW in Infernal modes, in fact, you can pretty easily do that with regular legendaries/uniques (without any gold stats) at level 55.

It is a fact that the vast majority of players who spend money on the game do so to improve their toon for PvP. The fact that the game is still up and running and still exists today is because of such players who are willing to spend a little (or a lot) for PvP purposes. I don’t imagine anyone would spend money on DSO for its PvE, that simply sounds ridiculous. So you PvE players should be grateful that you can still play the game because of PvPers who bother to spend money on it. And please stop whining and crying like little kids about nerfs; any nerfs affect us PvP players FAR more than you.

 

So you enjoy farming the same maps over and over again ?
You spend hours on end farming PW's for what ?
People play this game for different reasons but for a high % of end game players it is for PVP
My thoughts are most PVPers will stop farming and move to other games and the dead American servers will get closed sooner

 

Yes people for different reasons, congratulations, you agreed with the point i was making

But that somehow triggers pvp fanatics, i don't know the reason, but it makes them start screeching incoherently when someone points out to them that not all players farm pve to get strong for pvp, all players have their own objectives that they want to reach

And since you mention repetitiveness as a con for farming, do you repeating the same pvp maps and modes over and over again, meeting the same people?Why is repetiveness a con for pve and not for pvp?Double standard much?

And yes, many people pay for pvp, not all people, if i ever shop it would be for cosmetic items, not to get strong, i can farm for that, but that's my choice
For that same reason, i said i'm skeptical about gearless pvp,but that makes me in favour of it, somehow

Man, why are you getting so triggered?It's ok, relax, screeching incoherently is not good for your health

You have to learn to handle other people having different opinion than yours
In your opinion the point of progressing in pve is to get strong for pvp
For some people it isn't, and there were example above
For someone the point of the game is too get strong enough to solo inf 3 bosses, for others, like me, it is too collect every item of the collectors bag and for others it is to get strong in pvp
Why is it too difficult to understand?Why does it trigger people and makes them ramble incoherently?

Yes, it is a fact, and how does it disprove the fact that it is your opinion that the meaning of pve is to get strong for pvp?Doesn't compure, there is no logical link
The game is profitable because of payers, yes, you discovered hot water, i'm sure they'll give you the Nobel prize for Physics and yes, the majority of them spend for pvp,not all, but the majority, good, another awesome "discovery".
It sound ridicolous to you and you don't imagine it, and because of that, it doesn't happen?I mean, if i have spent money in the game, it would be either for gems for pve or for cosmetic items; but according to your logic, even if i did, it wouldn't have happened, after all it sound ridicolous, and if it sound ridicolous, it must be impossible for someone to do that
You're just projecting your opinions on others,but that's just makes the argument even worse

Ah, that's the source of your triggering, it's because you want people to adore you, to idolise you, to be grateful to you.
Well, lad, no, pve players do not have to be grateful to you, you made the choice to invest money in the game, noone forced you to pay at gunpoint or under threats, do not try the game to claim altruism for you spending money, you did for your selfish reasons, so it doesn't work
There are also strong players who rival shoppers and are completely free
But according to you, pve only players are only free to play players, because you are too closeminded to even think about spending money for any reason other than pvp

But the problem is that nerfs affect everyone and not just pvpers, if it only affected them i couldn't careless, it's their problem, but since it affects me it is also mine
And the other problems isn't because a class is genuinely OP, it's because some manchild can't handle losing and instead of trying new strategies, changing equipments or learning to play, they come on the forum, EDIT post some crybaby thread begging to nerf and if they screech loud enough Bp caves in and nerfs the class, destroying the progress of others, only because someone isn't able to handle losing in pvp

Some nerfs in pvp do not affect it much, but have pretty nefarious consequences in pve, it depends
The problem is that pve only players are affected by the tempertantrums of pvpers

 

Somehow after reading this the only word that pops up to my mind is ignorant and selfish. So you dont care for pvpers but you also rant them ? controversial ? naah probably not in your eyes.

If you cant see that pvpers actually make points far more valid than yours, i dont think you have the right to call anyone fanatic.

I dont know if for how long have you played this game but on lv 40 the pvp was close to gearsless. Wanna know what wsa the pictture ?
Mages spaming ice missle and fireball and wining all the time ,
But now on lv 55 the winner will be dependent of the higher % dmg skill adn base dmg and hp which suprise ranger is a pvp exclusive class ( that was the way their kit worked on lv 40 i mean cmon HUNTER , cant be more obvious).

"Some nerfs in pvp do not affect it much, but have pretty nefarious consequences in pve, it depends" guess again a wrong statement ,
If on pve then nerf the base hp you wont loose that much since you are in a group most of the times or are strong enough to 1 shot mobs but on pvp you lose A TON of hp due to % HP In items and set bonuses , so dont spit nonsence because you refuse to look at pvp the way you should , you are making false assumption and ranting all over the place

 

It seems you’re getting far more triggered than I am. No, I am not that narcissistic that I want everyone to worship me, I was simply advising the minority of players (who prefer PvE over PvP) that they should stop whining and at least be grateful for people who bother to financially support the game. It seems you fail to understand this and childishly assume that I am asking for nerfs or something like that. Your post doesn’t add anything to this debate, you only rant about how “wrong” I am and about how “right” you are. Yes, it is my opinion that most people pay money for PvP purposes, and it is also your opinion that people pay for PvE purposes as well. I’m sorry, but my opinion is closer to the truth and is shared by a larger fraction of the playerbase than your opinion. Do you want to ask the devs about some statistics or will you continue to cry and whine about how “wrong” I am?

Your above points are opinions just as much as my points are opinions, never once did I say I was 100% correct, but I shall reiterate what I have already said: the majority of players who spend money do so for PvP purposes. From what you wrote above, you have no argument; in typical kiddy style you use colourful imagery and analogies to character-assassinate PvP players and make them seem evil in some way. This isn’t creative writing here, if you want people to believe you, you need some facts to back up your points. It is pointless to post some interesting sarcastic stories in a serious thread. Everyone else is debating the serious topic of PvP becoming gearless, why can’t you? No, I am not close-minded or triggered or narcissistic like you portray me to be, it’s called being passionate about a certain aspect of the game.

Perhaps you thought this was the “creative corner” section of the forum. That is where you should show off your creative writing talent:
https://board-en.drakensang.com/forums/creative-corner.749/

You’re welcome

 

piteris2 you make a good point. I'm a pve player that pays but i wouldn't assume for a second that im in the majority vs those who pay to build and play for pvp, it would be nice if there was a way to set up a poll on the facebook page to ask players to vote on whether they pay and play pvp more or pve. Think it would be interesting to see the response.

 

https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/poll-pve-vs-pvp.75528/

 

I wouldn't care, if their
cries on the forums begging to nerf other classes for whatever reason didn't affect me and others, who primarily plays pve
And not only, those poster only pollute the forums and do not offer any contribution, but since they are a loud minority BP, instead of growing a pair and tell those manchildrens to shut up, they cave and nerf, regardless if it is needed or not, and destroying the progress of others who do not even do pvp

I repeat again, i'm am skeptical that a gearless pvp would work,precisely because many shop because of pvp, i'm not in favour, i'm skeptical, first i wanna how it they implement it, we have seen nothing so far, i wanna see before judging it, you, unlike pvp fanatics, i like to have opinions based on facts

I am selfish how? because i am not grateful to shoppers?But sorry, i didn't ask them to shop, it was their choice and it didn't benefit me; if this game closed down, i would go to play other games,thankfully DSO is a pc game, there thousands of other pc games, it's not a peasant box, where there only an handful of other games
If i have to thankful, i have to be thankful of those who can come up with strategies and calculation and share them of the forums, and because of that reason

Yes and when nerfs damage the offensive capabilities of classes, making them untermensh in pve or whey they damage defensive capabilities of tanks making tanking much harder?

Translation for your drivel:" How dare you do not agree 100% on pvp, how dare you play the game different than me, how dare you have different objectives than me"
it's simple, pvp is another way to collect items for the collectors bag,you look at another way, you opinion, but you don't speak for me, i couldn't careless about challenges and measuring myself against others, why should i be doing pvp after getting the bear and the obejective, the mounts and the costumes?For the clover, which happens rarely and that's all. And it's valid

Somehow that's heresy in the eyes of some, hence the nickname pvp fanatics, because they react like religious fanatics when someone doesn't agree with them
I can't explain it, why is that people start to screech in this way when someone says pvp is not so important?

But the majority of players already spend money for pvp, it would probably show that
There is no discussion about that, it's an already know fact, noone disputed that

But they shouldn't be grateful,since they didn't ask others to pay while they play for free, it was a voluntary act on the act of payers

But i am right, it is your opinion that the meaning of the progress in pve is to get strong in pvp, it is your opinion that the money spent in the game should be invested into getting stronger for pvp
Is it shared by the majority of the players? Of course and only the strawman version of my argument argued that is an opinion that the majority of players spend money for pve and not for pvp, i agree with you, the strawman is wrong, the majority of players spends money to get stronger for pvp

Is it a fact that the meaning for the continued farming in pve is to get stronger in pvp? is it the fact that this is how the game is to be played?No, since you can play perfectly fine ignoring pvp and getting stronger for whatever reason, someone above said that he/she is getting stronger because they want to be able to solo inf 3 bosses, that's their objective, their personal objective of the game; someone else said he's ignoring pvp altogether
Are they minority opinions? yes and none disputed that
For the same reason people tend not to be collectors, i like that, i am in the minority and i accept it

But like yours, theirs is an opinion about the game, it is the players who decides their objectives in the game
Thye ignore pvp and they play fine, without trouble, it's not like when level 45 was max level, in that case pvp was necessary, but it's a different situation now

Pvp players and pvp fanatics aren't the same people, nor are crybabies and pvp players, the majority of pvp players are fine, the problem is the loud minority of whiners who come here or on facebook to whine about X class because X class killed them in pvp, so instead of actually try to improve themselves, they do the easy way and ask BP to nerf
And BP caves in and nerfs, without even thinking of the consequences and regardless if their cries for nerf are even legitimate or not
They do not always coincide with pvp fanatics, there is some overlap

You're not a narcisist, than why do FREE players( not pve only players, there are some who pay for pve, not many) have to be grateful to payers?Payers are doing that for their own selfish reasons, to be strong, not to save the game from closure, your game doesn't work, don't try to pretend shopping in the game is charity and altruistic work

For this reason i and any other players do not have to be grateful to them, the game not going under is a consequence of that, but it's not the reason of why payers pay

That poll would show the facts, the majority of payers pay for pvp, which only the strawman you built earlier disputed, take that poll to him, not to me, i agree with you about that

 

lol.
Okey. Breathe.

Its our choice if we play for PvP or PvE. Thats ok.


It doesn't matter what i have chosen or not. Thats a missleading argument.
What i care about is what is actually being done to the game and its impacts and this is what this thread is about.

PvP is an important aspect of the game you willing it or not, PvP is a core reason for farming (not the only one though).

I do not judge people that only play for PvE, i also play PvE, a lot actually.
As you said, its our choice.

What i do not understand is why you get so hurt when pvp players do not agree with a change that only affects PvP and not your precious pve. If you are a pve player and don't care about pvp, just leave it alone and don't jugde us as well.

As far as this change means the so called "fairness"...

I still need to wait some more time to see how this is actually going to be implemented.
Than we can get to the conclusions.

 

Before I start I would like to say that any of my following statements are not personal or meant to be offensive towards anyone.
As one of the hotshots around ... i feel obligated to send a proper feedback so the game would be equally enjoyable to all.

So why bother here in this thread?
We get it you are not interested in PvP and that is OK. You play PvE and you care only for PvE.
Cool ... you have no reason to fear because it will not affect your gameplay.
That said ... I know what the reply would be ... but let me dismiss it before even say it.
I will use the following quotes because they contain the excuse you are going to use

(not replying to you Rhysingstar ... just continuing the previous ^ conversation)
First of all let me debunk and dismiss all the claims that "nerfs have happened because someone was crying around because s/he lost in PvP". That is a kindergarten story that is almost completely incorrect.
No one has ever made any nerfing based on ridiculous crying all over the net ... almost all nerfs that happened in the past were not related to PvP. To have a base for changes one has to have strong evidence and proof ... internet rants are not one of them.
If PvP was a reason for all the nerfs in the past we would have been witnesses of a flawless balanced PvP today.
We all know that is not the case ... so those claims can be immediately dismissed.
Here are the facts:
- back in time when level 45 was a cap level the arena was almost perfectly balanced ... it only needed fine tuning and polishing which was not related to any class. So why would anyone nerf any of the classes if the arena was almost perfect? Yes there is not reason ... therefore PvP can't be reason for the nerfing. There comes the next point
- level 50 has changed the game drastically (aforementioned infamous R155) but it was not a PvP oriented change. It was the PvE who started to create unbalance in PvP not vice versa.
- then crafting 2.0 came to scene ... it didn't change anything. The game has remained equally broken as before.
- finally ... "the secret expansion" of Qaeda came with all the new rules, crafting, items and gear. And that is still what we have got today ... a broken PvP because of PvE changes. And all the nerfing done meanwhile has not been made because of PvP.
Lets see some of the changes and nerfs made in the past:
- during Myrdosch expansion all players but rangers were farming level 43 items instead of level 45. Why? Because they were giving higher stats when upgraded to level 50 than level 45 gear upgraded to level 50. when this was fixed many players saw that as a nerf ... when in fact if was a bug repair. And it had nothing to do with PvP.
- we all still remember the low level Grimmagstone gear ... they were eventually rendered useless but again not because of PvP but because of PvE and the urge of having new PvE contents and the need to sell them to the player base. In fact during that time when Grimmagstone gear was ruling Dracania the game was perfectly balanced.
- Ranger's EA has been nerfed countless of times ... but it was not nerfed down because of PvP. The only PvP related nerf to EA was the removal of the explosion from end of the trail ... which didn't have any impact in PvE.
- PS has been nerfed because of PvE not because of PvP. PS's double damage has been removed together with the introduction of Leaderboards ... with the following excuse "Double damage has been removed because we wanted to achieve fair conditions to all classes" ... even though LBs are not inter-class competitive (Group LBs came much later).

And I can go on and on and on ...
All nerfs were made to increase the "balance" (read profit) in the name of PvE ... even though they knew players are spending big money because of PvP. Not a single nerfing can be even felt in PvE ... because you don't have to have exotic extraterrestrial technology to kill brainless mobs in PvE.

So again ... Sargon dude if you don't care about PvP don't get involved into discussion because it doesn't concern you anyway. Let the others who actually care, have their say.

Now ... I am not a PvP player but I find these proposed changes unbelievably ridiculous.
I am playing PvE most of the time ... I don't even have PvP set up/gear.
I am only playing PvP for daily ... but only because the arena is broken. Otherwise i would play PvP more.
My build is not even finished yet ... after 6+ years of playing ... but at least it is giving me a goal to reach (make good build and kill the P2W).
Many players who think these changes are going to make fair PvP are deluded. Some F2P players are supporting "gearless PvP" because they think they would be equal with P2W players . Wrong! Your effort so far would be minimized so the P2W would make bigger jump again ... since there would be a new system of "earning" made for profit.
There are another group of players who are playing PvP but they are having no honor at all.
They think it is OK if they leave the game if they get opponent they think is better than them ... or even intentionally not fighting and sabotaging their own team. I have met many of them in the arena. They should understand that points in the arena should be earned in fair and honorable way. Leaving the fight just makes you wimp. Fight should be fought until the end even if there is no possibility for you to win. After all ... having more fights makes you stronger ... collecting more honor points is giving you more talent points. As I said i am not a PvP player and I play the arena only for daily ... but I am making huge number of honor points even by losing fights. Like I said earlier my least favorite mode is 1v1 ... that mode is simply too boring to me. But since I stopped playing PvP with level 55 expansion (I was not playing after R155 too ... until I crafted good gear later on) I am only playing 1v1 ... I am going there to die. Yet ... this is how much honor points I have made in one year.

Spoiler: Points made in one year only by losing matches in 1v1

Compare how much fights i had in all modes before level 55 in the past 5+ years --- I have no mentor bonus
Those who play on Grimmag know I am not there to make their time difficult.

Either play to the end or don't hit the arena button at all. Simple as that.

(Again ... I am going to add to it i am not arguing.)
Like I said in the other thread

but there are more reasons those proposed changes are not acceptable.
- They are introducing a new term "PvE gear" ... ermmm what? What is PvE gear? A lot of our gear has been obtained through PvP and PvP events. You can't just declare it as PvE gear out of the blue.
- GoPs gems, runes .. etc can't be PvE gear because we were playing PvP for them too.
- PvP is not fair and it will never be fair. Those who mention sports and comparing sports with PvE don't even realize thay are proving that PvP is not meant to be fair. Because every single sport is not fair.
a) Olympics - same winners over and over again
b) Athletics - ^ same
c) Footbal, F1, Hockey, Cricket ... you name it ... any sport - It is same again ... same winners all the time.
Why? Because only those who can afford can win any sport competition. There are few rare occasional exceptions ... where "F2P" athlete/team can spoil the P2W's fun.

Like i was saying from the start ... tiers and stupid sets/set bonuses and buffs are the main issue.
If they introduce new PvP craftable gear without tiers and stupid bonuses and buffs... that would be acceptable for almost all.
However ... randomness is one of the reasons for the inequality. You can't make random base stats and expect to have fair matches. Enchantments can be random but base stats can't. Those players who are having solid base stats are having solid enchantments too ... those who are having bad base stats are most probably having bad enchantments too ... and that is simply adding up to the issue.

Making player's gear useless is hurting the game. Those who say let us have same gear are most probably new players and still don't have gear ... but they don't realize one day it will be them on the other side. Of course if they stay in the game longer than few months ... If not ... they were not important to change the game in their behalf anyway.
Don't forget that old and strong players are making you stronger ... without them you suck big time.
Stab them in the back and they will make your boring PvE miserable.
Who knows ... maybe new PvE grouping will be trending ... now everyone is asking you about your damage before let you play in the group ... in future the main condition for grouping could be "how much PvP do you play".

EDIT
//////
Oh and i forgot to mention that the arena is full of cheaters ... but that is another topic to be discussed. They can one hit you even without any gear equipped on.

 

But infact i am skeptical of this change, not in favour, i am neither against, nor in favour, i want to see how they implement it
And as i said, i care about pvp, enough to want to collect all mounts/ costumes/ ecc. aka completing it
After finishing it there would be no reason to care about it
I mean, i would be entering to die in 1vs1 and play lazily in 6vs6, it depends on the daily quest

But i'm not here pretending this is how the game should be played, that is simply my objective in the game, but i'm not gonna claim this is how everyone should play the game, as some sort of zealot, that would be arrogant

But it would certainly be fun to see true gearless pvp implemented in the game, the sea of salt generated would crash the salt industry
But i do not think it is a good idea, it would destroy the game
It would be like 2016, when the arrogant children lost spectaculary two times

Those the leave are annoying and doing the wrong, not because of leaving, but because they don't earn honor points
But I understand them either quitting after finishing the daily quest or ragequitting, when the matches are onesided or when you ended in the pain olympics( blue team in 6vs6)

I understand your point about nerf, but why did you include bug fixing? They aren't nerfs by definition

But pvp is your core reason for farming, not mine, stop talking in the name of others, none appointed you to be the representative of the players,speak for yourself, because you don't speak for me

And once again, i repeat: i care about pvp, i only care about the material rewards for doing it, costumes/ mounts/ ecc. the only things worth the effort in pvp and i said countless times, i am skeptical about this change,i am neutral, i want to see how they implement it before making a judgement on it

 

Pay attention when you read my posts.
In which point am I saying its a core reason for everyone? don't put words on my mouth.

I said it is ONE core farming among others.
If you are going to reply my posts, at least try reading it accordingly first.

Of course i don't speak for you...and thats great, thanks god thats truth.


Edit: oh, and by the way...its funny how "neutral" you are...by attaking other player's opinions. Nice move.