Announcement Ask the CMs in English

How do you presume to know how I play.

Of course I can dodge heredur easily. But it takes over 2x as long to kill with similarly geared DK vs other classes. Vs the other 3 ranged classes heredur is nothing more than a slow moving meatbag of HP.
With a DK there is always room for a single mistake or lag and you are dead.

Vs Sargon I can barely touch him because his red circle does a ridiculous amount of damage

I soloed everything, dragan normal, dragan hard on DK but with a kiting playstyle I know I could easily have done it way faster with any other class.

And finally you're not tanking these bosses unless u have maxed out gems/gear or played a long time. So the other 90% of the DK playerbase wont be able to do this.

 

its role is to be the meat shield for the whole grp. spam a basic skill and an aggro skill . have 14k hp 7k armour 2k resist and spam the same skill again and again until other classes had the chance to spam their basic skills and kill the boss. that is what pve for dk is. in pvp in duels u use the same tactic. u put everything u have between defence and running speed and run and regen and use pots until ur opponent dies from exhaustion. in 5v5 their only role is to carry flags. in 3v3 same winning by exhausting opponents and using the 45 skill and pots and running. i dont play 6v6 much so i dont know what u can do there but best option is always to spam the skill and run abt the whole map viewing the scenery using pots etc. dont forget to get the 6k draken weapon to help ur cause. Go DK!!!

Btw what dk's need is not increased tankiness but enhanced damage/crit chance to kill quickly/ make use of their mws more. well that will make dks op so wont happen.

 

OK I get what you're saying but the game has to be viable for new players and medium players.
Not only for people who played years or bought all the gems using $$

A newbie dwarf/mage/ranger can easily kill dragan hard by kiting
A newbie DK without items can do it too but only with EXTREME difficulty where 1 mistake = death

 

Thats the point that others wont agree to. to make a viable dk you always had to get a good build either by farming or buying. But no, every dk is OP. so be it. anyways if you are asking that question to me as a newbie dk, then just farm and get better gears which will come with 158 and upgrade and also get gems. if you are asking that as a player who plays sometimes and doesn't have time to farm their life out or buy gems from game then sorry but dk as a class is inviable for you. for casual play, ranged class is the best.

 

I don't agree with you at all.
If they want the game to be this way, put a warning at selection screen

DK - WARNING you must pay $$$$ to fight event bosses

SM - U can run around naked and kill everything with turrets
Mage/Ranger - U can kite all day long or use ledges

 

Or Farm your life out well i am a noob dk, some experienced players here claim f2p casual gamer dk even low level can kill all other classes and kill bosses easily. i will hope that them or our dear community manager will tell you how to do that.

 

I presumed before, now I know... you have no clue how to tank these bosses.

Killing Sargon and Heredur is a question of technique and time. Better stats means faster time, but unless you are too weak to take even one hit you should have no problem with this. If you are too weak to take one or two hits, you probably shouldn't be soloing and ought to be in a 1H build using the Battle Frenzy skill to hold agro while you run in circles around the boss to doge hits while the damage dealers do their work. (Just make sure that RAs don't use those annoying wolves... they will get you killed)

Let me impart a little wisdom from an experienced DK.

Heredur:
He is slow. Additionally, if you stay within melee range, he will never do his ground breaker. To stay within melee range and dodge his attacks at the same time, run around behind him while never leaving contact with him. Keep hitting him to build rage and then use a Dragon Fury when you have the time and keep running. The only "hard" part about fighting him is that the area you have to fight him in has a laser right in the middle. That means you would have to break melee range from time to time to doge the beam... unless you play it smart. You position him so that he is standing on the center of the laser. Now, you can tank him as described above, but you simply need to time when and in which direction you run so that you don't get hit by the laser. Too easy.

Sargon:
Same exact tactics as fighting Heredur. You having trouble with the red fire circle he does shows that you apparently don't stay within melee range at all time. To make this easier, it is simply a matter of having a smart start and then not leaving melee range after your good start. To start with, his attacks have cool downs, just like yours. And if you are not in melee range, he will use all of his ranged attacks before running after you. The trick is to get him to use his meteor, his earth shaker, and his telaport/fire ring back to back and then have him chase you to where you want to tank him before his long range options cool down. To do this, summon him, run straight right. His meteor will impact where you were. Then wait for him to begin the animation for the earth shaker. Move just far enough up so that he misses. Then wait for the beginning of the animation of his telaport and then run up near the entrance where you will be out of range of the lasers and he will chase you right out of his fire circle.

In other words, fight smarter, not harder. There are almost no tanks that can go toe to toe with these bosses and just trade blows until the boss is dead and unless you have a good strategy, of course it will be hard. You are making assumptions as to the viability of DKs based on your very limited knowledge and experience. I can tell you as a statement of fact that no class can solo as easily in as wide a range of areas as the DK. Things that the DK can handle easily is the sort of thing that would be death for a ranged class. For example, put me in the middle of a mob of 40 monsters and I'm happy. Put a SW or Ra or SM into that same position and the odds of them making it out alive are slim.

 

DK needs more tankiness. Period. Every other game that has melee gives melee some sort of advantage vs ranged.
Either more damage or more tankiness

Drakensang gives melee the exact same damage as ranged, which is in all real life situations less effective damage
And they get the same base HP, and armor.
And 10% more HP /armor from items. This is not enough

And there is a class disparity in that I can take any ranged class and EASILY solo dragan hard.
With a DK this is a huge chore.

And last time I checked this thread is for giving asking a question to the CM, and I asked them if there are any plans to make DK tankier.

I don't need your condescending response.
BTW I guarantee you I am way better at video games than you. I was a competitive UT99/UT2004 player and I reached diamond in league of legends.
So, rest assured, the hugely telegraphed choreagraphed mechanics of heredur are not at all challenging for me, although you might be quite proud that you can handle them.

However, it is frustrating to have to repeat the same mechanics like 50x in a row, whereas ranged classes would only have to do it 20x due to being able to attack more.
(I'll give you a hint: Any "pattern" that you can do with a DK you can also do with the other classes as well, except they can also attack from a distance so they hit more often).

 

(Edited by CM: No need to call names, plz) Llisten to the people that offer sound advice and get better at THIS game. You were given good advice from someone who is good at THIS game and understands that your desire to be more TANKY and kill bosses at the same speed as other classes effects more than just your ability to solo event bosses. Every class has skills and capabilites the others dont. So he gave you solid advice to do what you wanted to do. You have a roll to play in a grp, or if you choose to go solo as a DK, then pick either a damage build and avoid the incoming damage or a tank build and kill slowly while still having to dodge big hits. You can't have both because it further unbalances the classes. You are asking for someting that was just perged from the game, a high damage high defense DK which destroyed PVP and made every new DK seek the same build and easily become invincible compared to other classes negating the need for them. About being new or medium level player. There are two levels of the event map. The normal one is for new players and those still building to an adequate level. The hard map is for players looking for a challenge and offers nothing more than the normal map. Trust me, all the classes want help from stronger characters to do Dragan Hard because he kicks their butt if they are not ready for him. He is not as easy to kite as you may presume for the average ranged player as his damage is 8-10k without adequate gear. It is still a one mistake fight for them.

Being argumentative with the forum vets won't help, questions draw good responses. Reconsider your approach.

 

The label of this thread is "Ask the CMs". All I did is make a post asking CM's a question if they plan to make DK tankier or not.

If I wanted an answer from either of you I would ask you and not the Ask the CM thread.

And no, it's not a 1 mistake fight for the ranged characters, because they will easily never get hit with even mediocre player skill.

I'll give both of you a tip:
If you do nothing but run counter clockwise vs Dragan Hard, he can never hit you. Period. Even berzerked he will not hit you.
So how is he ever gonna hit a ranged character?
Even if you have the reflexes of a sloth all you have to do is wait for his Berzerk + jump = free opening to attack, or his groundbreaker = free opening to attack. A more skilled player can find other openings.

The problem with a DK is the following
1. Due to lasers there are way less places u can actually attack him from, compared to ranged who can attack from anywhere.
2. After the above two openings to attack that I listed, even though ranged characters will hit him easily, you will often not be in position to hit him on a DK.
3. The range of a DK is extremely low, a tiny error in judgement or lag and you are dead, the ranged characters have enormous margin for error in spacing.
4. There are 2 more advanced techniques that a DK can use:
The first is a combination of the rageful swing /bleed talent and the charge/assault reset talent to "sweep" back and forth dodging his attacks, applying bleed and then dashing through him. (3-4 rageful swings depending on your attack speed and then charge to dash through him and repeat). This works quite well, but again the margin for error is small as it requires you to watch his choreographed animations to judge how many rageful swings to use before you charge. A single mistake will mean death.

The second skilled technique is to run counter clockwise and as he is running to you, hit him with a rageful swing at a 45 degree angle which will hit him, then u immediately run a couple steps, he will do a normal attack and miss you, and then you can repeat this process.
It's the same technique I can use to easily kill Guardians in Lor-Tac without getting hit at all.
Except Vs Dragan though, the margin for error on this is very small again because his animation is quick.
Vs. a Lortac guardian, I can easily hit 2-3 times, take 2 steps back, he will attack me and miss, then forward again and 2 hits etc. It's like fighting a sloth. Dragan is a different matter, as the margin for judging spacing is tighter and the penalty is death.

5. I can and have solod Dragan Normal, using nothing but the Groundbreaker with 5 point talent, so from this I can extrapolate how ridiculously easy / quick it would be on a ranged character.

6. I have solod Dragan normal and Hard on my DK. Problem is it is too risky compared to a ranged character.
Normal he can't 1 shot me anymore so it's no sweat but Hard is too punishing.

Bottom line, is in PVE there is something wrong with the risk vs reward of playing a DK
I'm asking CM for response on this, I don't need or want input from Baragin or "forum vet".

 

Haruki,
Are there plans to improve the AI structure of the game? Any conversations regarding this going on in the team?

Here is my elaboration. The current AI structure is very simple and focuses mainly on damage and health points from the monsters. While this system is simple and easy to code, the more content/items the game adds, the more damage and health the monsters will have. No additional behavior from the AI will be seen. Lor' Tac shows this fact very clearly. Of course monster skills are not part of a monster behavior, but rather as monster "weapons".

I suspect FSM is used. May I suggest a Behavior Tree?
Given the nature of BT system, the programmer can continuously add more behavior nodes to the tree, without braking the whole tree structure. Thus making smarter mobs with just few added nodes.
This is not possible with FSM's as the more you add, the shakier it becomes, 10+ states and debugging is becoming impossible.
Behavior Trees are used by most modern games including all of the major titles. Behavior Trees are also incredibly simple to code and understand, but providing a huge complexity for an entity behavior with an incredible simple way of control.

In short:
We are bound to face mobs with more damage and more health, just different skills but exactly the same core mechanic.
Each new monsters will actually be the same monsters with just different look and maybe different skill. For me that's the same mob.

 

This is not a trading system
This is only to share, Exchange to another character.
Do you understand?
This not only recover the lost players
It can also attract more players to play, and enjoy the game.
So I hope we can give more the idea, Also allows the official has a communications bridge.
Right?
Finally.....
Hope BigPoint a lot of consideration.
Thanks

 

How about the third advanced technique ... hide and never show up in public again with your statements ... because it is obvious your knowledge and skills are less than poor. You don't know how to play DK ... and you know nothing about ranged classes too.

You know when you are going to get proper answer from the CMs? When I will have sex with Jenna Jameson.

Yes it is trading ... even if it is between the characters in the same account.
And no it will not happen ... because the CMs answered that many times ... last time was few days ago in the last Twitch show.

 

[Edited by CM: no need to use bad words, thanks!] I will not repeat myself that i wrote from the beginning of that updates, bcs its waste of time here, but i see that u will "buy" every "shit" that they give you with every update. Take a look at vides before r155 how pvp matches went and stop be funny bcs its a pain to keep reading topics with your brainless posts.
Dk where invisible before r155? mages not? of course you idiot... somone who spend 99999$$$ on game can become invisible, and stop crying when your ass got beaten up.

The whole problem is a huge damage boost after "update" which excites everyone and is a source of corruption arena. While other classes got boost dk got nothing, and his defensive stay in the same point and not have been inreased compared to the other classes dmg. Bugpoint create their own pathology. Every kidos know that warrior class must have some advetages to beat distance classes (dont you know that?), there are some posibilities:
1. more dexterity and movement speed to being able to dodge attack from distance and catch enemy
2. or more defensive and health to be able take some distance attack and not to die in one hit
3. or more dmg to force distance players to run from warrior and that make dk class dangerous (but now DK have to run instead of distance classes)

There are some cure options for your disease bugpoint:

"- Leave the behemoth only for 2H weapons / long bows
- eliminate the possibility of blocking all classes / set only for dk
- Increased regeneration of anger should not be passive for 10 points
- Movement points in knowledge but limited to 15 for each point of knowledge lifted up 2 points instead of 1 point so far
- Allocating points for lvl form should be 1-2-4 and 1-3-5 as yet not allowed to you to set the optimal configuration
- In the tree PVP defensive increase to 2 points for lvl leaving the offensive at the current level
- give desperation at the same time cutting the spammers easy honor points by lightin chain
- remove 150% increased damage 2H for magician / dwarf its idiotic move compared to % dmg from skills, they actually have enough
- set base atck speed for 1h (axe, club) 1,05"


Im also mage and dk player. AND to all those cryers - stop comment on something about which you have no idea. Try to play a 50 lvl dk and then start comment.

 

Wow, if you had spent 2 seconds in the DK section of this forum, you would be hard pressed to find anyone that knows more about a DK than Baragain. Attacking the two people (Baragain and Bigpappa) who spend almost all of their time on the forum passing out great advice is just silly.

If you think ranged classes are best, it is free to create one. Then you wouldn't have anything to complain about. Seems like a win-win situation to me.

 

Dragan hard is incredibly easy to solo with a mediocre level 46+ dwarf.

90 pearls, then trap the demon on the stairs, then kill with turrets and shrapnel shot. For dragan, opening sequence involves tesla turrets, mech turrets, shooting in the back,and shrapnel shot while running tight circles , and once the lasers start you can just use double mech turrets while running away from angry dragan and then back to the opening sequence for calm dragan in the broken laser zone.

Killing dragan hard was easier for my 2H DK but getting the entrance pearl was a little more work. Basically did what was described above.

 

All of the aforementioned bosses, the 4 statues (except the mage Sargon) and dragan I solo at melee range as a ranger because it allows me to use deadly blow. When SMs solos bosses they also solo at melee range in order to keep the boss stationary. SWs can also solo or "tank/dance around" the bosses at melee range when there is no tank in the group to actually tank. I can even make a video for you on how to dance around dragan.

The hard mode of the dragan event is meant more for people with better gears and experience and less for beginners/medium players. If you are seeking a less frustrating experience there is always easy mode for you to grind normal dragans.

 

OH WOW!!!!!

Congrats on being uber godlike... I mean really. I bow to your wealth of knowledge and experience. With a resume like that, How can I ever compare?!?!


And yes, That was complete sarcasm and condescending. Before I was trying to help out a noob, but it seems you don't want help or insight, you want to compare apples and oranges. I won't try to debate with you who is the better gamer over all, but from the ignorance of your posts, it is clear that I am better at this one than you. There are only two or three other DKs that frequent the EN forums that are as experienced with the character as I am and you are not one of them. Any other DKs that could actually teach me something are either on another language forum or don't come to the forums at all.

If you don't like repeating the same mechanic over and over and over, go play a game like LoL or DotA2 where the game is fast paced and there is no benefit that comes with playing other than knowledge/experience. Doing the same thing again and again is the nature of a grind based hack n' slash. If you don't like it, don't play!

Also not true. I can do a trick that SWs, RAs, and SMs only wish that they could. Every 60 seconds, I get a period of 10 seconds where I can lay on massive damage using banner and DH... but I guess that is another "advanced technique."

True, but it is the weekend, so until they come back tomorrow, you're at the mercy of the people who have forgotten more about this game than you know. Also, asking your question proves that you spend no time here on the forums beyond pretending that your experience with another game matters in this one. If you had spent more than the time it took to write your posts, you'd have read the most recent patch notes where it shows you the changes being made to the defensive stats on many items. After R158, the highest HP and armor lines for a DKs will be 478 and 440 respectively (on non shield items) compared to 299/359 for SWs, RAs, SMs which by my count is a difference of 60%/23% more for a DK when compared to the ranged classes. It is also worth noting that this change is motivated by PvP imbalance, not PvE imbalance. You are the first person in ages that I've seen complaining about the DK in regard to PvE... Stop to think why that it. I'll tell you... Because DKs are the easiest class to do all around soloing. From time to time, a ranged class may have an easier time in special circumstances, but those are the exceptions, not the rule.

Bottom line, if you can't play a DK right and think that the ranged classes have it so easy, then go make a SW, RA, or SM and shut up about DK imbalances when you obviously don't know anything about the classes let alone the DK.

 

With R159 in order to goto hard and ect... Do we need to defeat Mortis each time or... once we complete Q1 we can do Q1 hard and if we complete hard we access very hard ect ect...

Thank-you...

 

you said it doctor