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Discussion in 'Headquarters Archive' started by CM Greg, Jul 14, 2015.

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  1. misterbean

    misterbean Padavan

    My noob mage level 27 with only a blue 2h weapon with 80% dmg, mostly blue, pink and 2 or 3 legendary items and only novice centurion, absolutely no gems can get about 970 dmg in the arena. I 1 shot players all the time. Now imagine if I farmed and got myself better items, gems, a good weapon, speed gems, dmg gems, glyphs. I would easily get 2k-3k dmg or more.
  2. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Yeah yeah, 2h noob mages is another sad topic. One has to deserve such numbers. But that has nothing to do with mage vs archer topic. Archer do not have 2h weapon like mages do, which is also unfair. Plus you 1 shot some noobs, not players. Plus similar archers will one shot you as well with much less damage in a defensive mode thanks to skills. On lvl 50, gemy and glyphy arena 2h build 1v1 is a joke, easy kill for any good player. My 1h mage will easily kill my 2h one. And archers will just laugh of that 2h guy. Hey BigPapa, did you like BP attempt to 'address' the damage mitigation?.. they must be celebrating all the time)))
    misterbean likes this.
  3. misterbean

    misterbean Padavan

    Good points. My main char is a ranger 50. Against 3k hp 2h build mages I think scatter shot is very simple and effective :D

    Also 2h noob dwarves = 2h noob mages. All dwarves (except the ones who steal the flags) setup with 2h weapons and get insane dmg. On level 50, I setup my ranger for full defense just for fun and one dwarf was hitting me with the turrets over 1500 dmg through block. BP has made the dwarves so annoying. Shoot 2 turrets and run around. That sounds like a lot of fun :rolleyes:
    They can get over 5-7k dmg and don't even have to bother about crit or speed, just let the turrets do all the work while you run around in circles. In pve those 2 laser-turrets do insane dmg !!! I wish rangers had 2h weapons too :p

    On the other hand, maybe there are things about them that are inconvenient to offside all those strong points that they have, I don't know, since I haven't played one yet and I don't think I will. They are very useful in a group when you need huge firepower though. But there are situations when rangers are much better suited for the job than dwarves. Other situations when I would prefer to play a tank.
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2015
  4. Excalibur1974

    Excalibur1974 Junior Expert

    Nobody enjoy this mess.
    My nonsense replies to all similar posts are only to point out that is useless to complain about a particular class power or weakness, it sounds ridicolous.

    The only point to focus on, and to bring as a true feedback in this thread, is to repeat in an endless way that whole pvp system is broken, and nobody can take fun about this situation.

    On the other side, i'm not confident that developers are able to understand the scenario.
    I guess devs and testers are doing nothing effective about real fight balance. And they will pursue the same policy, until a wise guy of them one day will raise a silly idea like this:
    "Hey guys, what about trying to play in live servers with a realistic PG not overpowered, with statistics like those of majority of PG in the server?"
    "Oh yes", they will reply, "let's try this playing all classes, and doing many arena fights per day, in order to personally collect a real feeling of play pvp like normal customers".

    Do you see? It sounds so logic ... but they will simply laugh reading this. Or they will not read at all, even more simply.
    This is the real mess.
    Hope you agree ;)
  5. sdknightno1

    sdknightno1 Advanced

    Yeah but look closely, its only on off-hand items like Balls and Books, which means it wouldn't even matter if the mages used a 2-H, a book with all offensive enchantments, or a ball with all block enchantments. On the rest of the gears mages have equal HP and armor than the archers and the SMs.

    Nonetheless, I think they should equalize it, but I don't think it makes such a big difference unless you go for HP and armor on off-hand items...
  6. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    I'm with you, and BigPapa, and Traki on the damage mitigation. I know it is a mess. if you step into 5v5, you step into a chaos of damage where items, glyphs, gems, experience, pvp level, even reaction does not matter that much. total agreement. I was trying to point to a separate topic, however. Perhaps that is a bit premature because it is hard to hold a reasonable conversation, I mean, to get reasonable feeling of the balance because of general mess. It could be. Hopefully, it will get resolved sometime in the future, and I will hold off any OP kind of topics until then.
    2h is a separate topic, I hate those kids with tons of damage as well, and I also don't like rangers not having a similar weapon) that way rangers wouldn't be able to use that as an argument :)))

    So I did look closely, again) and it looks like
    Spellweaver - Health points(on Rings, Amulet, Belt, Helmet, Pauldrons, Torso, Gloves, Boots) is 299
    Ranger/Steam Mechanicus - Health points(on Rings, Amulet, Belt, Helmet, Pauldrons, Torso, Gloves, Boots) is 378.

    Since the total limitation on items is (according to r139 notes) 80%, I assume close to best stats 4x HP items would look like the following:
    Mage: 299x4x80%=957
    Ranger: 378x4x80%=1209

    And more on upgraded items. It is quite a difference, assuming HP% bonuses in the tree, amulets etc.

    If it matters a lot or not, I will not be making bold statements. Moreover, whatever I disputed with you was just what I feel or what it looks to me, no claims. Ok, as I said above I'll hold off until the general mess is addressed, so we could do some sort of calc on top of something stable. Hope you didnt get mad on the dispute, I hate those OP topics myself (I know it sounds silly after so long conversation), but I'm not some noob kid complaining about this and that, be sure) have fun
  7. Szmaciak

    Szmaciak Junior Expert

    Is it so hard for BP wait with r158 six days? Do you really have to put it in game during Dragan's event and will broke it with pearls, hard map and last chance for make a Dragan's set? I'm sure that for those 6 days we will have a lot bugs, problems with connections, groups, too strong mobs and too weak toons (again, AGAIN situation like after 155 because we are got little power from August to November after nerfing all and you have to destroy it again), lags and nebulla, that end this event for people who can do it at last days will be impossible.
    And turn off new Amon's frags from hardbosses, I need special items from them not that.
  8. Dylannn

    Dylannn Board Analyst

    About ranger getting more hp than mage, I don't have any probs. Every class should have a benefit, also warrior gets more defense, maybe this makes balancing a little bit better
  9. misterbean

    misterbean Padavan

    It's much faster do make pearls in the easy map.
  10. Yash786

    Yash786 Forum Apprentice

    Anyone knows when R158 goes live. Pls tell
    Thnx in advance :)
  11. misterbean

    misterbean Padavan

    ranger gets 10-15% more hp than mages, but so far I've never seen a top ranger with more than 3k or 3.5k dmg + 40-70% crit
    But I've seen mages with 6-7k dmg (almost double than rangers) and 30-50% crit
    I'm talking about pve setups here.
    Why is this? Are the ranger skills so much better that they have to have only half the dmg of the other classes?
    Yes, the concentration regeneration with deadly blow is very very useful. Yes, the explosive shot is amazing, with no cooldown and so is the thicket of thorns, very useful for slowing down and killing big groups of mobs. And we have a nice hp regen from the wolves / tree every 48 seconds (or less with bladedance skill). + the blade dance is very useful when you want to skip big groups of trash mobs, whereas the mages (and all the other classes) would get blocked and would have a harder time getting through.

    But are these cool skills the reason why we got only half the dmg of the other classes?
    Can the longbow + 20% concentration + quiver + cool skills = insanely op 2h weapons + bigger bonus from the knowledge tree (50% dmg is more when you have more dmg on the weapon) + bigger bonus from the dragan set (30%) ?

    You may say: yes but rangers got strong skills like you can do 600% dmg with explosive shot. Well ok but it requires 66 concentration.
    In order to use 3 explosive shots one after the other you need 155 concentration + longbow.
    Meanwhile the other classes have much more dmg, but less powerful skills, but they also consume less mana, steam etc

    What do you guys think? maybe I overlooked something. I don't think it will be ever possible to get such insane dmg numbers on a ranger (like 6-7k dmg)
    Imagine a mage / tank / dwarf with 7k dmg. If he uses blue he'll have over 11-12k dmg. That's more than a ranger can get with red.
  12. CM Haruki

    CM Haruki Community Team Team Drakensang Online

    Hey there playful creatures,

    how are you all doing? I hope good! By the looks of this thread, you have not been certainly bored...

    I am back here to shed some light on your questions and listen to what you have to say. Please understand that this thread has gotten quite big since the last time this humble servant of yours patrolled the streets... therefore I will concentrate my first batch of answers in addressing very direct questions. If I leave some of your concerns away and you would like to still have an answer from the team, simply remind me again via a post and I'll do my best.

    Special mention deserves the big batch of discussion that has happened about PvP and classes status altogether: release 158 is bringing some changes that address the broken Offense-Defense power progression you could experiment since Rel155 and that is at the core of the majority of complains here, we believe. I won't delve deep into this from a personal side. Rather, I will pass along the discussion to the designers for review although, as I say, I believe rel158 will push for a more homogeneous balance and it's a step into the right direction.

    Also, I would like to make a petition that I think is necessary after reading this thread, following my desire to keep it organic but somehow in order. As a CM I normally do not moderate on a heavy basis and follow a more chilled-out style instead.

    However, I would like to keep the thread as respectful as possible for all the people involved here. I have seen very interesting discussions between players who would not share their opinion at all but still played along the good lines... and people who fell already on the insulting and non-constructive side, fueling the way into provocations or drama.

    Please, let's try to keep this space as nice as possible. I do not have any problems with organic ramifications of topics (I kinda cherish them, tbh) but I do have an issue with posts that clearly move the thread off-shore in a personal and negative way.

    And now that this has been said, let me open my umbrella and off we go!!

    On the animation side, I am sure there will be further improvements to animations if the team considers it necessary after a while: thing is, now they are more concentrated in applying enhancements to monsters, bosses and maps first while keeping with new content for events and new additions for each release in general.

    From the game perspective side, I can say that our designers are still looking closely to the new skill system they created and the stats of the skills used by players. I cannot promise this or that change at the moment but they definitely want to keep on working in general balancing and problems across all classes.

    Random, random, random. Everything is a joke of randomness (and to give an official assessment to some of the complaints: nah, the hidden achievement is not bugged. It's simply very hard to get unlocked).

    The forum moderators are always in contact with us and ask us daily questions. Please do not always conclude that if a forum moderator answers something he or she is doing it completely on his or her own terms.

    No, I cannot lie in this matter. The Wikia is kept exclusively by the hands of a group of very enthusiastic and knowledgeable players of this community. And, I must say, they do a very awesome informative job in that respect.

    Emh, photo or did not happen!!

    Since Mr Greg was quite swarmed by other tasks I need to come back to you and answer, stealing that tag!! I am pretty sure the team will not want this. We are not particularly fond of the idea of object sharing between characters in the same accounts - we do not like it a bit. We also do not like the notion of trade system - we get the shivers... But I will go ahead and ask them and report back with their official answer anyway.

    Oh, well, this is a forum and its nurtured by the people that post here, indistinctly: players, mods and CMs. There is surely always space for constructive criticism, isn´t it, or for the exchange of ideas between the community. ;) As for your ranger appreciation I can only relate to what I wrote before: the game designers are looking into the balance between classes, the skills, and they have tackled the broken offence progression. At the moment they need to play around with multiple tasks at the same time (new features for releases plus careful consideration of the game core as you experience it and grows) so please bear with them as they keep on addressing the disparities.

    The necessity of addressing and enhance the current crafting system is part of the so called feature Crafting 2.0, which is under the works currently. Gotta say that we were mayhaps too optimistic and thought we could produce it faster for you guys but this has not been the case since the team got hooked with balancing and other upcoming measures - we are deeply sorry about that.

    Crafting 2.0 has been pushed back multiple times in the community roadmap, true, and it won't be coming with rel159 either. The arrival date seems to be some-when around rel160 or even 161. It has not disappeared. The team of designers really want to serve you a better crafting in that regard. The item issue with extraordinary and legendary is ongoing as well but it´s also in the designers' radar.

    Hey there mister,

    this is precisely it: designers do not want generally to tackle one class after the other in a kind of chaotic knitting class. DK balance measures were a different thing in this respect but the challenge that always remains is how to balance the combat system and battling scenarios as a whole in the best way possible, across all classes. This is what the designers always look at.

    Chill out, tiger, please.

    Your assumption that a whole system has been changed due to some comments on Facebook and that the CM people do not know where to look is... erring. Somehow painful for me to read. Like you, we have not been born yesterday and can distinguish between the perks of each of our social media. I am pretty sure we have never stated personally "let us know on Facebook" but rather more "let us know in the forums". This is not to say that sometimes you cannot find interesting written texts on Facebook... but let's be honest, the medium is clearly welcoming other types of messages (codes, codes, codes, Gnob, Gnob, Gnob) due to its nature. You know that, we know that. So please stop putting words we never pronounced on our lips. Thanks a bunch!

    Yes, there are more players using Facebook than the forums: our numerical stats show that plainly. But do you honestly think that we are overlooking the insightful remarks of the community on these boards? The designers come and read your comments here, that much I can assure you. And the feedback sheets we pass to them are nurtured mainly from these boards.

    And now going back to the broken arena. As with the other issues that I have been mentioning here, this is of course under the radar of the designers. You will have noticed that we have not commented about the guild vs guild feature for a while now and that is because the team has been focused on the broken offense-defense power progression after rel155 and in the big bag of changes that are coming with release 158. There are also projects to focus in fixing matchmaking, other PvP technicalities and in reworking all the different modes for a better PvP experience. Only when that level is achieved we will move onward.

    And we will let you know about those future improvements as soon as we have something concrete to show you.

    Hey there,
    maybe we have different definitions of the word bastardize but I actually believe the thread has run an interesting course if you know where to look at. I would not call all the posts made in this section garbage either, honestly, but that's only my opinion.

    Hey there Hiro-san,

    I guess you have already read the patch notes and the community roadmap. Basically you will be able to keep obtaining the old set if you want to but there is a completely new one with NPC Salvendar. However, this cool new one will arrive with the Parallel World Chapter 2 shipment in release 159. We have improved the values of the craftable sets in such a way that they are appetizing for all of you!

    What I always do. Good music, chilling coffee and write, write, write.

    You will actually laugh but... I am allergic to bananas. I know, right. Such a tragic life.
    And it makes for a lot of interesting and juicy jokes aside. Anyway, I can only but refer to the amazing blue post of Mr Allogeneus because he pretty much nails it. As with Customer Support claims and personal digressions against the moderation team, I would like to keep this thread free of continuous in-game suggestions. Pretty much because the good ones that appear in the Creative Corner have already made their way to us. And please, never put that kind of URL here ever. Destabilizes the good karma.

    Of course a great deal of things you guys say sound very logic. We do not laugh about that.
    We take actions against that because we do recognize a problem in place. Like with release 158 and other measures in the pipeline.

    Beginning of next week. You are welcome!


    And this, guys, it's all for today. Glad to be back! Keep on firing 'em and see you around.
  13. Dylannn

    Dylannn Board Analyst

    Thank you for those answers. I'd have 1 more question: The crit efficiency on 2h's will be raised by 75%. Does that mean the same thing as values? Those seem 2 different words, but I guess we'll see.

    Biggest question is whether these changes will also be made on already existing items. So will they?
    Armando likes this.
  14. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Welcome back, hope you've enjoyed your time off) and thanks for the answers)

    how do you manage to always pick wrong post of mine to address, which wasn't even a question?) but you are right, there was some bad wording, I apologize. I would dispute the 'bastardize', I think it is a good fit for 'messing up with the thread', and putting things out of assumed order) do not overestimate the negativeness of this word) I should have followed it by a smile. Not all posts are garbage ofc, but some of them are, and, if we take an assumption (using etiquette of communication) that every type of communication has a goal, and that the goal of asking question here is to get a response from you, debating the question by other users feels a little bit off. Anyway, sincere apologies.

    I will skip the balancing questions, not to provoke other individuals. I would like to go back to the essences, and the way the Wisdom Talent 'Attack' works nowadays.

    Previously, the % from the Wisdom tree was going directly to the base values of Damage (30%). I would assume it would be 50% post r155 if there was no change.

    Now, the % (2*25%) do not go directly to base damage. that causes a major essence (and other % bonuses) effectiveness degradation. Right now, if you are using the 2x25% bonus, as well as bonuses from items, sets, pets etc, adding an essence (blue for instance) will only add ~50% of total dmg, assuming you have had 100% out of Attack, Torso, Book of Shadows etc. Two examples


    If there was no change to how the Wisdom Tree bonus works, purple essences would be even more effective than red currently are. Damage with no essences would be higher in pre-155 setup. Damage with Blue would be much higher than it currently is. Because of the Wisdom change, the effectiveness of the essences (if one is using % bonus from wisdom or items, but pre155 everyone did by default) drastically decreased. It is no that the essences work differently now, because as you said previously it was always like that, but the wisdom % does.

    Besides of the effectiveness loss, there are other issues with that model. Imagine a character with two different Torsos, one 20% more dmg, another 100dmg. One is not better than other, as the 20% one is better with Green essences, but the 100dmg one is much better if you are using Red.

    Besides that, even though team gave us more damage, it is more damage with no essences. but the mob's defensive attributes were changed as well to incorporate higher damages. And it all might be pretty well balanced if we talk about normal mobs. But in certain cases, like boss fighting (mortis, khalys) people fight only with essences equipped. assuming you doubled our no essence damage and doubled Mortis HP to incorporate, that means that with the blue essences (even worse with purple and red), Mortis is a winner of the change as his HP boost is still 2x, and our blue-ish damage boost is just 1.5x. Hope you understand my point.

    The question 1
    The question or the request is for the team to roll that back, or slightly adjust the formula. Ideally, I would have two tiers of % bonuses, one for all the bonuses from the items and wisdom, and another from essences, buffs and pets (everything external to the character). that will bring back the essence effectiveness, will be exclusive to PVE so will not create further issues with balancing.

    The same issue exists for the HP, thanks to the wisdom bonus working as a % now. The issue is identical but less critical since there is no HP-essences.

    The question 2
    The critical hit, low level items. When?.. Previously, you said that it is not that simple, takes time, etc. It is already 2 years or so such items exist. 2 years it is impossible to get an item even close to them. Now it is even more important, as it is now very hard to reach reasonable critical hit in defensive mode, but those lucky owners of low level bugged gear are able to do that.

    You also said it is not that easy. Okay, with 158 you are changing every item and every stat in the game, hp, resist, armor, dmg, critical dmg on thousands items. Why not to use this as an opportunity to resolve that issue forever? by either nerfing the low lvl gear to reasonable levels, or doubling the critical hit on current items and increasing the overall critical hit requirements (further inflation) to incorporate? so when? :)

    Thank you, and hope hearing from you soon)

    be sure that will touch existing items as well. the way it works nowadays - there is an item of some level, and the rules of its change when its level increases. The items you have in the inventory are not stored somewhere, just the references to the based items. Should they touch the base items, that will automatically change the existing ones, like it was with the recent change to lvl50 items. Assuming, of course, that they are not adding completely new base items. Plus there is a confirmation of that from the test server, by @trakilaki (thanks). sorry for answering if you didn't want me to)
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2015
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  15. Master0fpuppets

    Master0fpuppets Forum Baron

    CM Haruki, anything I say no matter how good my intesions are is gonna be turned up-side-down by bigpapa or someone else like trakilaki, that's why I whriten that what you quoted. I really hope dev's do fix that explosive arrow 'couse I do not know how it makes any sence for someone to have 800% damage on 1 shot when marked with green arrow and brake armor along the way.
    I'll be happy to send you proof of ranger admiting that xplosive arrow have to much damage and how much that is bad for the game.
    sebastian_fl likes this.
  16. MANOJ

    MANOJ Forum Pro

    Prove it.
    Explain how EA skill is bad for the game.
  17. Mindship

    Mindship Forum Inhabitant

    IMHO, the EA is overrated, like the mage's Destruction/Meteor. Plus, for the EA you need a clear line-of-sight. Granted, I go for a balanced build and don't do PvP, but still, I have not been particularly impressed with any of these Big Hit weapons (sans essence).
  18. Master0fpuppets

    Master0fpuppets Forum Baron

    I can not reveal names to you on the forum, but I asure you that this is ranger conforming as dev's will see in the mail, skill have to much power and they know it and abuse it. Have few more screenshot with proof that skill is not only over-powered but bad for game, with ranger saying how he uses explosive arrow skill but it's not on english so am not gonna post it, it's for the dev's. Rangers use exlosive arrow skill to 1 hit everyone in the arena does not matter how high armor you got or do you have 12, 15k life it just kills you 1 shot, trough block and for the record I have high armor, high block , high life.
  19. Darwarren

    Darwarren Count Count

    So, Monday-ish, +/-.
    Why is a day so hard to schedule?
  20. Rhysingstar

    Rhysingstar Forum Ambassador

    So basically because this ranger is OP that automatically makes them all OP? Granted that was the same argument used for DK's, so who knows, maybe they'll nerf the entire class because of a few strong players. Of course then they'll have to nerf the mages because they'll be OP, then they'll have to nerf the SM's just on general principle. This way, everyone can be unhappy.

    I do find it kind of interesting that so many believe winning in pvp no longer has anything to do with how much you play, what lucky gear drops you got, or how much money you spend.
    misterbean likes this.
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