Crafting 2.0.3 :-[

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by _Baragain_, May 21, 2016.

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  1. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    That is because you didn't follow the first rule:
    Rule #1: You can only craft/revert items of the same type and rarity. Crafting 4 items of same rarity but different type will always result in random items with all random stats.
    Example: crafting 4x green helmets will result with blue helmet that you can revert back.
    Crafting 2x green helmets, green gloves and green weapon will result in random blue item with 2x random enchantments.
     
    Mops413, _Baragain_ and Dragenstein like this.
  2. Mesala

    Mesala Advanced

  3. bennfros

    bennfros Someday Author

    1h weapons is 3 different types for DK; axe, mace, sword. Sometimes i put in craft window all 3 types and get random 1h with revert possibility and stats inherited as normal crafting.

    The same with 2h, as most needed is axe, (for green to blue) its worth to put mace or sword with gold line and 3 others junk which at least 1 is axe. So you will have possibility to get blue axe with gold line from sword/mace.

    [​IMG]

    1st and 2nd successfull from random craft, 3rd - fail :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
    Mops413 likes this.
  4. Mops413

    Mops413 Forum Apprentice

    Thanks for the helpful answers and btw, @bLaind , if I knew everything I wouldn't be asking. I was just learning by doing using green items, and my theory "as long as there are all yellow lines, whatever the resulting item, it'll have yellows as well" obviously proved incorrect.


    Interesting, so because there are different types of items, no matter their stats, the result will always have random stats? I knew about the revert-same-type but not this.
    So now: 4x green 1/1 = blue (0-2)/2 ? So if the resulting lines are random, I can only conclude that using all 1/1 in crafting only increases the chance of getting yellow lines in the result, or else nobody would farm for 1/1 in the first place...

    Then the "best" plan would be:
    4x green 1/1 using only the wanted stats, do this until I get 4x blue 2/2, again with the stats I want. Then 4x blue to purple 3/3, then those purples to legs 4/4.
    Would be great if using full yellow lined items would have a "chance" of 100% to make the resulting item have all yellows as well. Ughh this is gonna take time..

    Edit:
    Is it faster to do 2x 1/1 + 2x 0/1 as the crappy stuff is plentiful? Is this what the guide tell about payers having an advantage here (well what's new) because as long as the money flows, reverts and re-crafts can be done all the time?

    The "plan" above is probably not fast, so I guess I should just do it like the "faster" way until I get at least some decent stuff (cause even half the dailyQ legs right now are better than my own items lol).
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
  5. -Skyfire-

    -Skyfire- Someday Author

    Anybody know what the math is like if you absolutely want 1 of the lines in your final result in legendary to legendary crafting? I'm assuming it's something slightly higher than 1/4 of the exo to leg chance. So if I have 6 good lines including the one I absolutely want, it would be slightly higher than getting 3 with 5 gold with exos (4.55%), or something between 1-1.5%. Considering I have to take out glyphs and gems every time I craft, probably something like 10k+ gold and 40+ 4 slot legendaries :eek:
     
  6. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    So if i get it right, you want to place 4x legendaries, with 1 stat that has to be there, plus 3 out of 5 gold lines?
    So its 1/2/4, 0/3/4, 0/4, 0/4.
    The probability is ((1 choose 1) * (5 choose 3) ) / (16 choose 4) = 0.55%

    Or 1 / 16 * 4 * (5 choose 3) / (15 choose 3) = 0.55%

    Should you have two extra legs with 1 okay stat, it would be
    1/4 * (7 choose 3) / (15 choose 3) =1.923%

    Generic formula, assuming you have:
    X - number of lines you absolutely want
    Y - number of okay lines (any combo of them is fine assuming those X are in)
    (X choose X) * ((Y choose (4 - X)) / (16 choose 4) *100% = ((Y choose (4 - X)) / 1820 * 100%

    Googling that should provide you with the final result.

    More complex. Lets say you want two groups of stats, weapon dmg and crit. You have 3 of each:
    Leg1: wd, wd, wd, 0
    Leg2: crit, crit, crit, 0
    Leg3-4: 0,0,0,0

    Chance of getting 2x wd, 2x crit is
    (3 choose 2)*(3 choose 2) (16 choose 4) *100% = 0.55%

    And even more complex. In above example, you absolutely want one specific wd, and one specific crit. The other 2 should be one of 2 remaining WDs, and one of 2 remaining Crits.

    (1 choose 1)*(2 choose 1)*(1 choose 1)*(2 choose 1) / (16 choose 4) = 0.21%

    And so on)
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2016
    Armando likes this.
  7. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Hell no!

    When you craft green to blue, one line is inherited, the other is random. When you craft blues to purples, two lines are inherited and one is random. When you craft purples to legendaries, 3 lines are inherited and one is random.

    Using this information and the math that Armando and I have done, you want to do 1x1/1 with 3x0/1s. Because only one line can be inherited, you have a 25% chance of getting what you want and a 75% chance of failing, but junk items are much more common than another green item with the type of stat you want. Instead, focus on the slots on your junk items. The same is true for blues to purples. It is a lot harder to get blue items with 1 stat that you like than it is to get junk items. And this goes on and on and on.

    The odds of getting a 2/2 blue is astronomical reallllllly low (due to the fact that the random line would have to be in your favor) and you will wast tons of gold and items in the process. Also, what you are describing is closer to what I described as method 2, and unless you have an unlimited supply of items with gold lines, you don't want to do that. To make it easier to understand, check out this simplified table that UndergroudKiller made a while back.

    I know that sebastian was trying to help, but unless you love math, just use the tables that Armando already built.
     
    Armando, thebearreturns and Mops413 like this.
  8. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Armando's great table doesnt cover that use case :)

    He wants 1 specific line (some perfect stat) no matter what, and the other 3 to be out of 5 okay lines.
     
    Armando likes this.
  9. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    Meh... that is why you don't accept inferior lines in the final item. I'd working on the 3/4 legendary I'll need for my final improvement to my weapon, and I don't accept any % damage line below 78% or a crit line below 1720. It means that I never have to settle for less. My motto for Crafting 2.0 has been this from the start:
    "Do it right the first time and you don't need to spend the resources to fix it later."

    It is OK to do mix ups like I described with my mech, but if this is someone's goal, they shouldn't be worrying about the math needed for an inferior item.
     
  10. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Yeah, I also changed my crafting strategy since I started. Now i only craft 4x 2/3 pinks, and 4x 3/4 legendaries, all perfect. Otherwise it will drain gold very fast, even though I sell everything I get, as I dont need glyphs anymore.

    But his question was rather theoretical. Maybe he has 10, 9.2, 9.2 kind of torso, and he wants that 10 to be there for sure.

    Or he has 5 weapon dmg lines, and 1 crit, and he wants that one crit. All valid use cases, even thougb I wouldnt do that.
     
  11. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    That is a much more reasonable situation than using imperfect lines. I've gunning for a 3%damage/1crit, 4/4 axe. Depending on how my next exo--->legendary goes, I may have 4x% damage and 2x crit going into the bench or 5x% damage an 1x crit going in for the legendary--->legendary craft. The truth is, I know that it will be expensive, and I'll just take my time.
     
  12. Mops413

    Mops413 Forum Apprentice

    Ahh now I'm starting to understand! Too bad there's no guaranteed result concerning stats, it occured logical to me that, for example, 4x green 1/1 of which 2 are damage and 2 are weap.damage%, the result would be a blue with dmg and w.dmg%, possibly keeping it yellow. So that's the catch then. No matter, I've decided to be lucky with all my crafts and recieve the best possible result every time without fail >_>.
    Thanks for the help, everyone :)
     
  13. -Skyfire-

    -Skyfire- Someday Author

    Wow this is really useful. For anybody who's wondering he missed a / in there so it should be
    (3 choose 2)*(3 choose 2) / (16 choose 4) *100% = 0.55%

    Well I'm kind of in the middle of those two extremes so I was wondering how greedy I can be with my crafts. With the formula above, I think I can set a realistic goal for accepting.
     
  14. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Best way for understanding the mechanics of crafting is to pay attention on the messages you are getting from the workbench. You are being notified whether you may or you may not craft the items, you can hover your pointer over the final item (before crafting it) and you will get information on the enchantment lines ... whether they are random or inherited.
    Only legendary to legendary item craft can result in 4 inherited enchantments ... all other ways result in items with 1/2/3 inherited and one random line.
     
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  15. Dragonnns

    Dragonnns Forum Veteran

    I'm just starting to experiment with crafting. So I had four pauldrons, two with two 26 damage lines and two with 34 damage lines. I put the two 34 in slots 1 and 2 and the others in 3 and 4. I fully expected to get one blue pauldron with either 26 or 34 damage and a random enchantment. Instead, I got one damage line for 30 and one random enchantment. Is this normal or expected?
     
  16. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    were they different levels?
     
    Armando likes this.
  17. bennfros

    bennfros Someday Author

    One or both with 26dmg line was lower lvl so you got final item lower then 50lvl.
    You can always check which line was inherited, just hover mouse over your indegredients and you will see one with blue line.

    [​IMG]

    lol that was just testing craft without any gold lines and I got one from random.
     
    Armando likes this.
  18. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    That could also be it. It is important to check the ingredient items to see which ones are highlighted blue. That will tell you where it came from.
     
  19. Dragonnns

    Dragonnns Forum Veteran

    Nope! All four were level 50.
     
  20. Novadude

    Novadude Commander of the Forum

    weird. not sure what happened then.
     
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