Announcement Dwarf class & Skill Rebalancing

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by Sunlight, Jul 28, 2017.

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  1. gun

    gun Forum Great Master

    I'm sorry dear Sunlight. This sentences is lack of original truth.

    The Dwarf rebalancing on test server show a dull work in progress that reflect how the work it self not being done properly.
    There you have it BP team.. the community reaction on your work result.
    If I were in BP team, I would be in shame to propose such work to ask for community feedback.
    As per today update, it does not deserve feedback.

    I'm going to elaborate a little bit.

    On the other hand the Skill timings update have a good motive behind it and well explanation about the update expectation.

    I wish any update in test server especially about rebalancing come with following:
    - Reason
    - Motivation
    - Expectation
    Even feedback can be break down into pieces, so we would know..
    - Reason
    Are we are in the same perspective of the case?
    - Motivation
    If there would be a lost, how to make it reasonable so can be accepted by players.
    So would in benefit, how players would be able to gain it.
    - Expectation
    If this being brought upfront, it will be the indicator.. are we doing the right thing?

    One last thing.
    I would like to bring up my old suggestion.
    Do live Forum Discussion Group(FGD). You would like to bring quality. This is one of the best way of doing it.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017
  2. UndergroundKiller

    UndergroundKiller Forum Expert

    " i WiLl DeLeTe My ChArAcTeR iF tHiS gOeS tO LiVe SeRvErS " :)


    Now seriously, I think that's not totally a bad idea but it needs some rebalance :rolleyes:

    Like other players said, I think that the introduction of 3-4 seconds of immunity to the turrets while they are spawned is fair enough; also, removing the attack speed multiplier from machine gun tourret is a bad idea... Simply reduce the bonus from attack speed, if you want to change that skill at all costs.

    About the other changes, imho they are fair enough.
    It's sad to loose a 1v1 fighting a 5 month old dwarf, just because it is a dwarf and, therefore it can move around while tourrets do the work :oops: (it was the same vs EA spammers)

    Anyway that's my opinion, if you think it isn't correct, feel free to S.U. :p
     
  3. Slabutul9

    Slabutul9 Someday Author

    Can't agree more ;)

    One of the biggest problem is that they change characters roles as they want. for example at lv 40-45 (begin of the game) i choosed warrior cause it was good in defense on 1h, and also the best dmg dealer on 2h.. beeing the only character that can't run and hit, at lv 50 they kinda changed his role to ''tank'' only. With op stats at lv 50 you needed much more time to kill a boss solo than any other char for example. And now mages kinga become the worse char to play :p They should try to keep the characters role as it was at begin and not change it with every to expansion.
     
  4. jslaughter

    jslaughter Forum Apprentice

    In regards to pvp, my wife and i rarely play that at all, its just not our thing. So why destroy the dwarf in pve against tough bosses making it impossible to play all for changes in pvp? Why can't they just adopt different sets of rules like other games do where in pvp skills do less damage or turrets have hp and you have to learn some good skills? But why destroy the biggest aspect to the game for many players, pve against bosses is hard enough especially at higher levels and solo which i love to do and now its going to become impossible. That's a game breaker right there.
     
    Szmaciak and semen470 like this.
  5. multitoonz

    multitoonz Forum Great Master

    Funny. I see a couple of names here leaving "feedback" of players (MAGES) who don't play dwarf but a couple of months ago were extremely vocal demanding the SM class get nerfed. Now they input the "Oh gee that's a shame" and think offering their suggestions about this should be taken serious.
    Every SW and Ranger can rejoice now that DSO is activating a class killing patch. I guess the devs do listen to feedback, albeit always the wrong ones.
    Test work in progress? No it's not. They need to get the nerf out in the next patch to actually see the death effect it will have on the whole game, active on the live servers. There are too few dwarf players on TS for the devs to make a sane decision and completely rescind their madness patch. So this whole In Progress fluff needs to be left out of the thread because it is not true.
    They are taking away the only skill sets SM class has with the promise the other classes will be nerfed too in the future as justification. No they won't. The game can't afford to nerf the DK again because one more then you lose over half your tanks in one mass exodus. Then no one gets to farm Infernal except the really heavy P2P and there aren't many of those left now. You can nerf the ranger again because absolutely nothing will happen to that player base. Same with SW class. Tons of crying complaints in forum will happen but none of them will leave game and then wonder why they can't get a group to farm Infernal II. Oh wait, the tanks left after getting nerfed again...then they'll start posting about how really unfair DSO was to the dwarfs and DK's and beg BP to make it all better again so people come back to game.
    Skills rebalancing? This is again a Class Killer Patch. There is no balance in that at all. It's against forum rules to say bad things about the dev team so let's just think the heck out of some thoughts and send them via the universe to those amazingly awesome hardworking knowledgable devs who tirelessly make DSO such a great game. The company is on it's 3rd CEO now, who knows how many CM's, the last one disappeared and you'd think HE or SHE would have advocated to NOT kill the SM class with a patch like this. And who knows how many devs are coming and going. This patch and the coming other class nerfs looks to me like it's with purpose and malice to drive the player base away so they can finally kill the game completely.
     
  6. Falk101

    Falk101 Junior Expert

    Just an idea, why you don't separate PvP and PvE skills ? Like that you can make your "rebalancing" for PvP and let people playing PvE enjoy the game.
     
    Zulily19, Szmaciak, semen470 and 4 others like this.
  7. Demon

    Demon Forum Mogul

    I have made a post in creative corner about how i see a solution for the PvP - PvE separation.
    https://board-en.drakensang.com/threads/special-pvp-arena-maps.74219/
    and you know what?- no one post anything there, no one came with a solution they just cry when they are nerfed.
    They all come to forum only when they complain about something but they dont want to help BP with solution so that they can have a better game.
    I know usualy BP dont care about what we post on forum, but maybe they will accept better solutions if we can deliver them.
    Ontopic i think that the touret that deliver damage is more a weapon cant be considered a helper to have life and also the SW is the one that need reworked few skills efects not dwarf.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2017
  8. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    Anyone that is talking about how to make the turrets survive simply have no clue of what they are talking about. You can keep the HP/immunity or whatever want implement it and *imagine a funny use for those*.

    The problem is if they are removing attack speed from machingun turret formula: they are cutting dwarfs dmg by 50-250%.
    Have you ever seens a nerf like this in any game?
    From a day to another they cut by half (if you just started playing) up to 80% dwarfs dmg, they render totally useless crated item for years on which ppl spent thousands of gold and andermants and they pretend this to be "fair"?

    I should even give a feedback about this? How could I and anyone like me accept that I have to trash 1/3 of my equipment because it's gonna be totally useless?

    They are not saying "attack speed will be less effective", the are saying: "opss, you can trash em all at once. CHEERS"

    Normal ppl would have just tuned down a bit the dmg formula and fixed the tesla's overlap (so ppl would have needed to use more turrets to recover the dmg lost) OR would have implemented the buff so you would lose dmg when not close the turret OR would have lowered the duration time of the turrets (so you had to cast em more frequently effectly lowering the DPS because now we have 2" delay before a turrets can start firing) OR would have restricted the range in which the turrets are dismanteled restricting the movement area of dwarfs OR would have FORCED THE CONVERSION OF SAPPHIRES INTO RUNES (because we all know that everyone looks at the dwarfs in the videos with full royal sapphires while the vast majority of players DON'T have those stuff, will never have em, and the crapload of dmg those guys are dealing comes from LEGACY items that should be removed from the game FOR EVERYONE because ALL the other ppl CAN'T/WILL NEVER REACH THAT DMG ANYMORE).
     
    semen470 likes this.
  9. Woudlopertje

    Woudlopertje Someday Author

    I think that it's a good idea to remove attackspeed from turrents. Other classes that summon guardian or wolves / tree shouldn't be effected by attackspeed either. In addition to that they should be able to crit.
    The only thing they i think they should implement is, that dwarfs should deal less dmg the further away they are from their turrents. The rest of the rebalancings are a bit to much and looks more like a nerf in my eyes.
     
  10. anubi555

    anubi555 Forum Apprentice

    This is dwarfs main attack so dont comper it to guardian or wulfs etc.
     
  11. Woudlopertje

    Woudlopertje Someday Author

    Dwarfs main attack is broken since it never took crit or crit damage into account. So removing speed and adding crits to it is reasonable.
     
  12. jslaughter

    jslaughter Forum Apprentice

    i don't think removing attack speed altogether is the answer because then you destroy the investment many people have made in their speed gems and runes. Toning it down some, maybe reducing the amount of damage it adds would be more fair so there would still be a reason to at least have the additional speed even if it does not produce as much damage. Adding crit would basically be a rebuild and too much of a time and investment for players that already have a nicely built dwarf.

    ----------MERGED--------
    And dealing less damage the further you are away from the turrets is ridiculous because dwarfs need to run around as a survival tool. If damage needs to be reduced to balance then simply either take some damage away and call it a day or reduce the amount of time the turrets spawn for by a couple seconds.

    ----------MERGED--------

    it feels like there is too much thought being put into how to balance the dwarf because many feel they do too much damage, why have to have some creative solution when the simple solution is too either reduce the damage permanently or the amount of time guns stay once they are spawned, there is nothing complicated about this.

    ---------MERGED--------

    and the damage a dwarf does should not be an issue at all in pve, but pvp i do totally understand and the easy solution is a different set of rules should apply in pvp, maybe no bonuses to damage or something, it can't be that hard to do.
     
    Last edited by moderator: Jul 29, 2017
  13. Woudlopertje

    Woudlopertje Someday Author

    I dont care if you have to rebuild your character. Not having to use crit or crit damage was a bad idea from the start anyway. You cant expect to keep the speed and add crit to a dwarf to make it even more powerfull then it already is. I agree that many of the rebalancing stuff they come up with is too much. The ones that are good are pointed out in my previous posts. Besides turrents are a survival tool? It's OP as hell running around and letting turrents deal damage for you while we have to predict were your next position will be. If we constantly try to hit you we get tons of damage from your turrents.

    I get it nobody like changes but somethimes they must happen. And your runes / sapphires aren't a complete waste since there are still skills you can use that are effect by attack speed. You just have to adjust your playstyle to it. Just like a lot of rangers did when they introducded ''siege'' bows.
     
  14. Shine2

    Shine2 Board Administrator Team Drakensang Online

    Hello jslaughter I have merged your posts- please use Edit option next time -thank you .
     
  15. jslaughter

    jslaughter Forum Apprentice

    Thats not really fair to those who have invested alot in their characters and there is no reason for a dwarf to have crit at all. They are pure damage dealers and should remain that way. And the simple solution is to seperate pvp and pve because pve doesn't really affect any other characters but your own and what you can do. And all the complaining ive seen on forums about certain types of characters never get invited to groups is bs, almost all of the groups i have been in have had all types of characters. And as an example of why pvp and pve need to be seperate in how they are handled is today i did pvp only because my daily from last night had a clover at the end. I didn't care if i won any matches because i just wanted the clover, but i won quite a few matches just by dropping mechanical turrets and running around. Now i felt that wasn't fair at all and there definitely needs to be a major rebalancing in pvp. But then i went and fought grimmag on excruciating and died a few times so thats still somewhat challenging solo. So if you take the dwarf down to balance pvp but it also affects the pve then all the fun is gone from the game because the most time spent playing for most people is in pve. This does not need to be overthought, just take the damage done in pvp in whatever way will make it fair and leave the pve alone. But since it looks like that isnt going to happen, then the next step for me if they make this change is to jump ship and move on to another game. There is a game out there whose name i will not mention since that was edited before when i did that, anyway there is a game out there that has been very very long running and is finally coming to mobile devices, so cross platform. As much as i love drakensang, they kill the dwarf and its time to put my money elsewhere. I love buying andermant and the special packages they offer in this game because this is how i spend alot of my time but that ends if they destroy the dwarf.

    --- MERGED ---

    sorry i had so many and i will use edit the next time, thank you!
     
  16. ThukMohl

    ThukMohl Forum Apprentice

    I'm a four months old lvl 52 dwarf, focus on pve, I seldom play pvp coz the matchmaking of this game is really bad. PVP just gotten worst since i've left this game 4 years ago. Dwarf isn't my 1st choice but I choose coz it looks fun to play and it really is and I love so much my dwarf now.

    Then this rebalancing idea come... i'm really furious. My feedback? THE HELL WITH THIS GAME I'M OUTTA HERE GRRRRR!!!!@#$!!!.
    I log to the game (thinking to bid farewell in my guild) and brought this news to my dwarf friends... well they laughed at me and said its ok coz we, dwarfs, are somehow op. Only today I know that dwarfs are op and the attack speed affects machine gun turret :confused:

    Made me think... maybe dwarfs are really op... maybe i did not realize coz im new with teh class.

    So if you really gonna do it. Fine.

    My suggestion:
    • Lessen the cost of steam for turrets or removed the steam cost and make shrapnel shield and missile have it
     
  17. Redkiller12

    Redkiller12 Forum Great Master

    Being a RA,I didn't rejoiced,though.Yes,I admit that dwarfs need a little nerf,and that's why I think that hp is a good idea,but with more rebalance,such as immunity for 5 seconds,immunity to effects(stuns,mage's mind control,etc) a lot more hp,deal a little more %dmg get steam back if they're destroyed and only at the mechanical turret.However,I don't want the rest of the unnecessary nerfs to happen.They're just really bad changes that hit dwarfs really hard,these nerfs will just kill them and I'm not happy about that.

    So....
    Let's just hope they hear the players and this feedback will be worth it.
     
  18. ßítí

    ßítí Forum Greenhorn

    :):):) This skill balance is thought well. but turet need more hp.
     
  19. daywaker2

    daywaker2 Forum Demigod

    no speed multiplicator means again -30% dmg than -8% of machine gun...+destroyable turrets thats totaly fail patch of bigpoint. If you want lose all dwarf player do it..
     
    divaofdanger likes this.
  20. alveis31

    alveis31 Forum Greenhorn


    Lol do you have 1.30 attack speed? if you have 2 attack speed you lose 50% damage... if you have 3 attack speed you lose 66% dmg etc...
     
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