Bug Dwarf's Essence bug (the king of bugs)

Discussion in 'General Archive' started by sebastian_fl, Apr 28, 2017.

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  1. Arx_X

    Arx_X Advanced

    they are supposed to work like this. think of the silver enchantment scrolls from the FM Event..they are there so you can combine with normal essences.
  2. malasuerte1

    malasuerte1 Forum Apprentice

    I bet it will be fixed with R203 :)
  3. UndergroundKiller

    UndergroundKiller Forum Expert

    imho, BP can apply 3 solutions:
    • Leave as it is, wich would be the worst thing ever;
    • Fix the bug, wich is still unfair, because of all the boss/mob kills dwarves would have done before the fix;
    • Make it so that all classes' skills get that bug, wich would still be unfair because of all the essences used compared to the number we could have used if all of us were affected by that "bug".
    hudtasd likes this.
  4. hudtasd

    hudtasd Forum Greenhorn

    So are there any news about this.
    Can a mod say wether BP is going to fix this stuff ? Actually that would be quiet nice.
    Well, it really is kind of unfair to all the other classes. A lot more players should pay attention to this thread. This all seems ridiculous to me.
    I tested it on my little dwarf today. And here are my screens if you still need more proofs. ( there are still some individuals who still say that this isn't a bug ( "normal, is because of the speed" -> that is why I tested the bug with 1,0 speed and yes..the bug exists and is totally true.))
    With green ess 509 dmg: I skilled 25 wisdom on % dmg and I am wearing a % belt and a % torso[​IMG]
    now with blue: 509 dmg ( 255*2=510 ..but the dmg you can see in the character are always rounded numbers )

    So BP ...Pls do something about THIS. This isn't just a small bug, this is probably one of the worst bugs dso ever had .....
    unbelievable that this was kept secret for such a long time....
    so pls mods, I want new information ;)
    Last edited: May 4, 2017
    Yogo likes this.
  5. Galvard

    Galvard Forum Mogul

    Maybe it's not a bug. This must be done deliberately. :D
    malasuerte1 likes this.
  6. Arx_X

    Arx_X Advanced

    don't know if trolling or....

    so with no essence you do 255 dmg per tick to the mobs and when you swap for blue you do 509 ..so double, as in.. +100% (hm.. isn't that what the blue ess is supposed to do?)
    it's the dmg output that matters , not what your "char stats" window shows.. and if you're complaining about a visual bug , that's another story
  7. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    Guess you have no clue how the essences are supposed to work, do you? Please read the original post few times. Essences are NOT supposed to work on top of the other % increased damage % attributes from items, wisdom tree bonus, set bonuses.

    If you have your char naked, and you have zero points on wisdom tree, yes, essences will double the damage. But as soon as you add a single point on damage in wisdom, or get a torso with increased damage, essences will no longer double. It has been like this forever. Not for dwarfs though.

    Btw, looks like the guardian has this issue as well, but I will let dwarfs to start a separate topic on Guardian being OP with red essences if they choose to :)

    I hope this was already submitted to the dev. With upcoming full moon event, dwarfs will easily get the T4 set with no issues, while mages would left without a team, again. So the dwarfs will improve at a much faster pace, unfairly, thinking they are some kind of a gods like the one below.

    Last edited by moderator: May 4, 2017
  8. hudtasd

    hudtasd Forum Greenhorn

    No, I am not trolling :);)
  9. KulawyMao

    KulawyMao Exceptional Talent

    really? troll
    if he shoot in 1ss 254.6 its 255 for game bc u don't hit any % of hit only basic number
    next 254.6x2 is 509,2 so for game it's 509 ;d

    i think dwarfs don't care about this, even if bp fix this, there are dwars, who solo do all q inferno on green...so we still have dwarfensang with bug or without this bug
  10. Nalros

    Nalros User

    We have included it into our weekly report, Sabastian. Thank you for the in-depth analysis as that makes the case much stronger for the Developers to see.
    sebastian_fl and Erebus like this.
  11. Llogos

    Llogos Junior Expert

    Wrong. I have to disagree with that subject. There is no bug at all. Why? Simple. Me and my girlfriend did some tests with her dwarf. The results are absolute correct and shows that there is no bug.

    A dwarf with 0 skill points on the wisdom tree, and all items off to have the pure base stats and also the machine gun turret and the mechanical turret no-skilled for the purpose of the correct testing.

    Now, lets go for some calculations.

    Machine gun turret:
    No essences:
    Base damage 360.
    {(360*1,75)/3}/2 = 105 -
    Actual: 104 -correct-

    Blue essences:

    Base damage: 360+100%=720
    {(720*1,75)/3}/2 = 210 -
    Actual: 209 -correct-

    Mechanical turret:
    No essences:
    Base damage: 360
    (360*0,65)/2 = 117 -
    Actual: 117 -correct-

    Blue essences:
    Base damage: 360+100%=720
    (720*0,65)/2 = 234 -
    Actual: 234 -correct-

    In fact, with the machine gun turret, in both cases you see 1 damage less than the calculation and not higher than the calculation.

    Now, if you skill the turrets, of course you will see higher damage as it adds for example on the machine gun turret 33% damage on the turret, because it adds on top of the turrets damage. Therefore, there is no bug at all.

    PS: I would advise the EN-team, not to include that non-existing bug into the weekly report.
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  12. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    Llogos : wow you clearly missed whole point of this report read it again ofcourse your test must be correct ... normally essences multiply damage before applying any modifiers ( like % damage , 50% from wisdom etc )

    soo 100 damage with blue essence and 50% from wisdom result in
    100*2=200 + (100*50%)= 250 in total
    for turret however it simply mutiply final dmg by essence resulting in
    100+(100*0,5)= 150*2 = 300

    normally every damage gained from % bonus to damage on items ( except + % weapon damage) doesn't get multiplied by essence ... but turrets clearly bypass this rule getting higher bonus than they should
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
    (-DevilofNight-) likes this.
  13. And now, do this test again with 25 points on damage in wisdom tree, with a dwarf and any other class ... You will see that only dwarf have this system, bugged anyway.
  14. Mal3ficent

    Mal3ficent Guest

    We already did.
    The devs are already investigating the matter. ;)

    Nalros and sebastian_fl like this.
  15. Llogos

    Llogos Junior Expert

    If the essences multiply the damage before any modifier, then with a base damage of 360 it will be:
    (360+100%)+50%=1080 damage.

    So with the Machine gun turret the damage will be:
    [(1080*1.75)/3]/2=315 which is correct. Same should work for example with the PS from a ranger. For instance, (1080*1.5)/2=810.

    Based upon what the character window shows, each character has 900 damage with 25 points in attack skill and blue essences. That happens, because BP calculates the blue essences with the wisdom skill Attack and then with the base damage that all the characters have, with a proportionate system function y=360+x, where ''y'' is the dependent variable ''damage'', ''360'' is the base damage among the classes and ''x'' the independent variable ''% increase damage''.
    Now, in the variable ''x'', they calculate all the % increase damage, such as wisdom skill, blue essences, etc. That means: y=360+150%=900, where 150% is the 50% from the wisdom plus the 100% from the blue essences.
    Although, if we take in consideration that the essences multiply the damage before the wisdom, then we would have: 360+100%=720 damage, and it will make our function as following:
    y=720+50%=1080, where ''720'' is the damage multiplied by the essences, and ''50%'' the damage from the wisdom skill Attack.

    With the above functions, we can realise that BP's calculation goes like:
    y=360+(2%+100%), y=360+(4%+100%), y=360+(6%+100%) ... y=360+(50%+100%), where ''2%'', ''4%'', etc. is the increasing damage from the wisdom tree until we reach ''50%'' and ''100%'' is the increasing damage from the blue essences.
    On the other hand, the second function shows how its suppose to be if we consider that the essences multiply the damage before anything else.

    In that case, we see that the dwarf works how it suppose to work, but it shows the wrong stats on the character view, while the other classes don't work with the essences how it should be. Meaning, the correct multiplying with the essences and the rest modifiers.

    In my opinion, what has to be changed, is the other classes calculation, so the damage they will make using blue essences will be: y=(1080*z)/2, where ''1080'' is ''(base damage+blue essences)+wisdom skill'' and ''z'' is the % of damage the skill does.

    In conclusion, I highly believe that the dwarf works correctly, and the other classes have to be changed to work the same way with the dwarf, and i believe that all that mess happened after they decided to replace the skill tree with a new one, and applying the wrong formulas for the correct damage. What takes place is, that both formulas, the old and the new one clashing with each other, creating a visual bug, plus using the old formula for the dwarf, while applying the new one for the rest of the classes. I realise it may sound very confusing to you, but i tested every class on that matter, which in return brought me to this conclusion.

  16. sebastian_fl

    sebastian_fl Count Count

    no idea how did you come to this conclusion, but the essences have never worked like this, and this was clarified few times by Haruki when asked about essences effectiveness. there was even a thread on this very subject.


    I have asked her multiple times, and this is one of her answers. I expected the essences to double the final damage output, like it works with the dwarf's skills now. She said, multiple times, essences DO work as intended, and they DO sum up with other % bonuses before applying on top of the base damage (absolute dmg without any % increases). they have even changed tooltips on wisdom tree to make sure they are not misleading.

    like it or not, this question has been asked and answered by BP individual long time ago. I have triple checked.

    so the dwarf's skills are bugged, and has been bugged for years letting dwarfs abuse them and benefit from them. unlike some other dwarf's skills, that work as they are supposed to work.

    If you are right, and Im wrong, and also Haruki was wrong, your other skills are bugged, as they do not double/triple output, and so are and were other classes skills for a very long time, since July/August 2015 when it became relevant. So if you were to be right, other classes were punished by the bug dealing much less damage than 'intended'. even in this scenario, nevertheless, dwarfs are the winners of the bug, and benefited from it for years.

    but again, as I pointed above, it has been confirmed by BP dwarf's skills are bugged, not vice versa.

    upd. They also mentioned it in release notes when changing tooltip of the Attack talent from the wisdom tree, as it was misleading letting people think Attack works on top of essences, or vice versa.

    here they said


    Adjusted the tooltip of the focus talent “Attack”

    We adjusted the tooltip text because it was misleading. The talent relatively increases the total amount of absolute damage in the same way that the Essences of Combat, War and Destruction do.
    Last edited: May 5, 2017
  17. HurrDurr

    HurrDurr Forum Apprentice

    Solid work there, sebastian.
    What is most surprising that it was unnoticed for so long.
    I clearly remember a while back some guys investigated dwarf skills. They came to conclusion that dmg on some skills was too low, and ultimatelly skill description was updated. I guess they didn't find anything wrong with other skills ...
  18. Kan_Krum

    Kan_Krum Forum Greenhorn

    Really sorry Sebastian :) but your mag makes too double dmg!!!! Do y have bug too?

    But y can see that alone :)

    With blue ess double dmg


    and again with blue ess double dmg:


    Sorry :)
  19. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Wow!, amazing discovery, stop the press!:

    Looks like it didn't take long for the first one to jump, because surely, damn guardian overpowers the damage output of every turret of the SM, game breaking! :rolleyes:

    Sarcasm aside, good to know Seb, if it needs fixing, so be it, I just hope they prioritize all skills among classes equally when they fix this. :D
  20. EmilyRose

    EmilyRose Forum Commissioner

    Do you know that dwarf can make 2 turret, but mage only 1 guardian at time?
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