idea to facilitate the sale, casting and storage of objects.

Discussion in 'Creative Corner' started by wavi, Nov 26, 2019.

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  1. wavi

    wavi Someday Author

    idea to facilitate the sale, casting and storage of objects.

    The objective is the accumulation of objects in an inventory box

    Requirements:
    - same item level (1-55)
    - same degree of object (I, II, II ... VIII)
    - Same color of object rarity (green, blue, pink, legendary)
    - same name of the type of object (wolf shoulder pads, northern earth shoulder pads, etc)
    -the object does not have to be identified
    -does not apply to unique objects

    [​IMG]
     
    JohnWick and Javah like this.
  2. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    *onomatopeic word referencing the audio that comes from the striking of a small bell*
    My dear friend, it appears that in your testimony of the perspective that you have on the current scenario, I found a contradiction between both of our standpoints regarding the quality of the subject in question. Therefore, it is with modesty that I must announce that through a logical deduction that this contradiction should not and thereby must not exist, the perspective that you have chosen to stand by is deemed invalid.

    In other words, you don't understand what you are talking about and are literally asking to be harmed.
     
  3. Javah

    Javah Exceptional Talent


    The idea is simple but effective, I would very much like it to be approved by the production.

    Unfortunately I fear it won't happen too soon, so many variants have already been proposed (for example, the "sell all" and "melt all" buttons), which would cost developers even less effort, but nothing seems to move on this side.

    Maybe you could open a survey and make a little more realistic proposal by providing a maximum stack of 9 items for each type, instead of dozens if not even hundreds as in your picture. And it would already be a great help for the many who farm quickly and are forced to sell slowly.

    Lol?
     
  4. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    This is not simple nor effective.

    It is in fact very complex and wouldn't solve any problems, since every item (identified or not) has its states. They would have to be stored as dynamic arrays or something like that, and their databases are faulty without that. If they made them like cubes, aka not bearing any states (just a bundle to be opened), they could loss quality due to the ways the PRNG works. On top of that, them tampering with items in such ways could lead to some nerfs in the platinum spawn rate (which is very low anyways).

    Also... do you realise how much of space would it take anyways if this was implemented somehow?

    Let's think inf4.
    You are getting drops of t6, t7 and t8. 3 tiers
    You are getting drops of helmets, pauldrons, torsos, gloves, boots, amulets, belts, rings, decos, shields, offensive offhand (3 classes), and from two (1h and 2h) to six (DK's) types of weapons. 13-16 item types
    You are getting at least pink and legendary items. 2 qualities
    If you are changing maps (regions, q6 to other q's, event and normal content, etc.) it can be more than one skin set. Let's assume one is running Winter summit (next event) and parallel worlds, but avoids q6. at least 2 skin sets
    It's, in the least, 3*13*2*2 = 156 slots, or about 5 and half a page. Are you still interested in that?

    Do you want a simple solution?
    Give us more inventory space, or just increase the gold drops AND increase the platinum spawn rate, while reducing the items drops (effectively reducing the excess amounts of junk we are getting). Or you could do both.
     
  5. Javah

    Javah Exceptional Talent


    Thanks for the clarification, I was not aware of the fact that the values to an item were assigned when the opponent releases it: I thought the assignment would take place when you identify it.

    Well, having said that, frankly, I do not see insurmountable difficulties even in implementing a multidimensional array that does its job well even on many different types of items, and that is queried and managed efficiently. It should be a joke of half day for some skilled developer.

    Unfortunately the "simple solution" that you propose (adding more and more pages to the inventory) is the simplest at the development side, but it is the least efficient and the least functional one (for all those who only want to drop + sell/melt) as well as the one with a cost out reach for many (for me for sure, because inventory pages are so way expensive, and I don't really want to give money to people who are not doing anything to deserve it).

    Adding other pages means procrastinating and amplifying the inefficiency of the farm and selling systems, because it doesn't solve the problem but on the contrary it increases the number of clicks (which is one of the things that give us the biggest annoyance) needed to get rid of all the trash that we accumulate in just a few runs.

    The system proposed by wavi is just and only a good workaround for players who compulsively and quickly farm the same map (just think in case of boring events) and that probably only drop:
    • purple items
    • golden items
    of only 2 tiers realistically speaking (how many t8 objects do you collect in a few runs inf4? Often none).

    If you stay on the same map and always repeat it, you'll see that the number of slots saved is simply huge if compared to the current situation in which every item occupies a slot (you don't even need to do the math) and if you had the chance to sell each stack with just one click (be it 9 pieces or 99 or whatever you want) both the occupation of the inventory and the speed of sell would be greatly optimized compared to now (even more if compared to the case of having even more pages full of trash than now).

    I repeat, it is not a system that serves and solves always and for everything, it is only a temporary storage escamotage that allows you to multiply the runs before selling, in certain but frequent circumstances, and be much faster when you sell all your rubbish: half a hand from heaven for those of us who spend hours in the same two maps.

    The speech of increasing the "good" items (those with platinum lines) and decreasing the overall number of what is dropped on the maps is totally correct but I think it is utopian, given the deleterious orientation that the game has been following in the latest years: the production just wants to multiply the loss of time, the annoyance, the inefficiency, and consequently the gawking dependence that many players are suffering towards the game.

    Furthermore, as long as the workbench remains so expensive and will almost always yield useless or at least unsatisfactory results, a large number of junk items are indispensable for collecting the quantity of gold used to finance the numerous crafting attempts that are required to arrive to result.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2019
  6. DreamWill

    DreamWill Exceptional Talent

    sorry but… the easiest system is to make the drop of the items as general "improved equipment", "magic equipment", "extraordinary equipment", and "legendary equipment" like they give us in the fullmoon event, daily quests etc. divided by tier, and only when you click to identify them you know which item mobs dropped to you, isn't it? With a max of these equipments you can stock in the same slot.
     
  7. Javah

    Javah Exceptional Talent

    Of course, it would be. But, in the case it ever happens, you'd need of 4 slots only in your bag :D:D Instead the answer is always not to exceed, neither in a sense, neither in the other.

    Now we have single minibosses that fill half a page of inventory with their drops: it's clear we are really in an extreme situation, which needs a solution. But at the same time we must also be realistic: BP must be able to continue to sell all the inventory pages it can sell ...

    Just we cant continue to add new inventory pages indefinitely, because when we start selling we should arm ourselves with Job's patience to click on hundreds of items individually. You certainly remember how unnerving it was when there was no automatic craft for gem stacks :confused:
     
    DreamWill likes this.
  8. DreamWill

    DreamWill Exceptional Talent

    yes i know that in fact I said to separate them by tier first and then to limit the amount of items you can stock, like 10 for example, or 5 (this means x5 times free slots) and you have to take care because you need to keep several free slots when you come back to city to identify them so…
    Imagine you can use one slot for 2 items and we have double space: what changes? I think nothing as we are now.

    Idk your situation but to me even in this way I have to stop at least twice every map to sell:D especially during events when every time we lose half page only for the resources we need for them. do you remember anniversary event? it was one page full of tokens and chests:confused:
     
  9. dkarl

    dkarl Forum Master


    I need to remind both of you that not everyone is an end-gamer with all 12-13 slots glyphed up to level 60 … I still need every scrap I can find to sell for gold or melt for glyphs. Rewards from events don't do much for low-level or weak level 55 toons; we need those glyphs to advance our characters before we can move up in dungeon difficulty levels. Please don't take away my junk!
     
  10. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Though I agree with ΣMiwel that the original idea is very problematic, I also think the junk items are much needed, be it for glyphs or coin or crafting. There have been suggestions about making the work bench return all 4 items at revert, so players would not need so many junk items, but that would probably solve just one part of the issue.

    A feature that allows selling and melting all unidentified items on the current page, with a filter whereby the player could set which items they want to sell or melt in a bulk (e.g. keep 2h weapons, keep everything with platinum line/s, keep everything with gold line/s, ...) could solve the whole issue.
    Activation of the feature could be put behind a "pay wall" of ander or gold or simple wisdom points (or something else).

    As it was already mentioned, stats, skins, item type, ... roll on gear at drop, not at identify, so it should be possible to have such a button or two right at the edge of the inventory tab.
     
  11. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    They have to, or everyone will be harmed in the long run...

    They are adding more and more junk with every single update. Before, people were able to glyph up their items with only 2 items dropping from a miniboss, now we're getting 10-20.

    We were all glyphing our items up when it was way harder than now. Why should the really needed changes be stopped just because you want to have an easier time doing the easiest part of character progression? Sorry, but no.

    Neither do the glyphes.

    Crafting good items and only that can do much. Visible changes can be seen after completing the uniques and earning wisdom (up to a certain point only). Everything else is just a small addition that can change things only after you've already accumulated a great deal of percentage increases from the main character development sources.

    I've made a suggestion that would fix the whole issue and a few more. Nobody's presented me any reasons why it wouldn't work.
     
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  12. Javah

    Javah Exceptional Talent

    Whatever the solution, I would just like to say that we need a solution. I can't afford to buy tens of new pages of inventory and at the same time I think is good to explore any doable solution even if not so easy to be implemented.

    Given the current terrible quality of the items that opponents drop and the very high cost of the workbench, no one proposes to eliminate the junk that you find around. Long life to the garbage!! :D:D
     
    DreamWill likes this.
  13. sargon234

    sargon234 Forum Demigod

    I agree with Miwel, we don't need this complex solution, we need simple solutions, which already exist and are easy to implement
    In this case we need common sense
     
  14. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Forum Veteran

    I've got the SIMPLE SOLUTION. We now, in wisdom, have the Peddler. So in the [Settings] put a tab for [Peddler] with the following menu:

    ================================================

    With the PEDDLER wisdom skill active, auto-sell the following on pickup:

    [ ] All Normal Items
    [ ] Normal Items without any gold lines
    [ ] All Improved Items
    [ ] Improved Items without any gold lines
    [ ] All Magic Items
    [ ] Magic Items without any gold lines
    [ ] All Extraordinary Items
    [ ] Extraordinary Items without any gold/platinum lines
    [ ] Extraordinary Items without any platinum lines
    [ ] All Legendary Items
    [ ] Legendary Items without any gold lines
    [ ] All Unique Items
    [ ] Unique Items without any gold lines

    ================================================

    Then the character checks the ones he'd like to have sold automatically.
    Short, simple, useful to everyone (from those who want to sell everything to those who want to sell nothing).
     
  15. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Count Count

    Now, write the script that does that without exceptions. Real script, and not something like
    Code:
    while(getItems.extraordinary.Platinum(0)) {
    getItems.extraordinary.Platinum(0) = x;
    sell(x);
    }
    I bet it doesn't work that way (or at least would require coding some functions etc.).

    And then think of all those people who would claim then that the script sold something they didn't intend to sell... whether that was to really be happening or not, such people would come for sure.
     
  16. TwiliShadow

    TwiliShadow Forum Veteran

    I do industrial programming and VBA and implementing it wouldn't be that hard. There already exist code to color the numbers gold or yellow and that same part would be used to facilitate the "not sell" exceptions.

    My solution is simple to implement.
     
  17. Javah

    Javah Exceptional Talent

    Indeed. It is simply too simple.

    I like your solution: it gives the possibility to perform a not-so-inefficient farm even with 10-15 free slots. When full, just make 1-2 clicks to free all them and let's drop again. Semiautomatic and pretty fast, many people would be satisfied with it rather than buying more (and expensive) inventory pages. While instead BP must sell all the pages they can.

    It is necessary to make plausible proposals that satisfy both them and us at the same time: the fact of stacking a limited number of items would be a good compromise for everyone.

    Lol, such a parameter of comparison :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
  18. Akageshi

    Akageshi Forum Duke

    Well, I assume the sell filter should not be available since level 1, and most likely it should be activated though Wisdom points, so players would still fully expand their inventory before they could even activate the sell filter.



    There have appeared quite a few different solutions to the whole inventory management problem. From simple x extra inv pages to bulk sell, bulk sell with filters, and similar, to changes in crafting and drop rates.
    I don't know anyone here knows which would be ideal. You see, even if perhaps your idea looks amazing, the actual implementation may get distorted in favor of DSO's weird balancing strategies.

    Until recently I've been a lot into the bulk-sell with filters solution, similar to TwiliShadow's idea (see my previous post [#10]). But I can see now - and now let's say it's technically doable - I can't imagine players not messing up their sells, constantly forgetting what setting they have active, or miss-ticking the right boxes all the time...

    I think what we need is a rework of the work bench, crafting 3.0 of sorts, that would not demand so much space to keep crafting gear and allow for much fewer gear items in drop. Coin would drop in much bigger stacks instead, so selling would be so much less frequent. Glyphs would be obtainable in much larger quantities from gear than now. If you get some 4k glyphs from an exo now, it would have to be at least 10 times more to compensate for so much lower "junk" drops.
    The inventory problem has to be solved with coin, glyphs, and crafting in mind.

    So overall, ΣMiwel's ideas should be the better option.
     
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  19. Javah

    Javah Exceptional Talent

    The demonstration that nothing is simple as it is supposed to be.

    Furthermore, being able to collect more and more items, and having to do more and more clicks to sell everything, can't be defined as "solution".

    At the opposite, increasing slots indefinitely is just a procrastination of annoyance and wasted time for players.... and the only happy ones will be the producers, who will have even more pages to sell.


    This is the point. The whole upgrading system is sick in the deep. So, again, much better adding always more pages rather than facing the problem at its root?
     
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2019
    gbit likes this.
  20. wavi

    wavi Someday Author

    It is no use increasing the inventory if you still have to click, click, click to sell or melt items. Anyway, I already found the solution and it is:
    Do not pick up green, blue and pink objects, this way the game is much better and less time is wasted by clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking, clicking.
     

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