What's CV [combat value] really good for?

Hi. We witness a constant argument between players, or rather forum members, over class balancing. This usually ends up as a furious turdstorm as the discussion, or fight actually, moves to the area of PvP.

People always mention the same thing. Class 1 is too strong. Class 2 dies too easily. Class 3 doesn't even have to try. Etc. You know how it is.

It seems to me that people just ignore the fact that a character is not a class. Character A is different from character B, despite being the same class. And they can as well have a largely different power if they are different classes. Character A can be easily twice as strong, or more than character B, because A has been around for longer, or is a better farmer, you name it.
So it makes no sense to induce a class power difference from a character difference.

Now, there's this CV number, the combat value thing. Shouldn't it give you a rough idea about the strength of your character?
It's a general number. It doesn't really distinguish damage values from hp, critical damage from armor, etc. or does it? Like it probably gives you 1,000 cv per idk, 200 hp, as well as per 800 dmg. I don't know. I just used arbitrary numbers. The idea is, is the same increment of dmg for example, and the same increment of e.g. hp (so +100 dmg and +100 hp) translated to the same increment of cv?
Well, I think it's not, and therefore I think CV will grow faster with damage than with hp, or faster with hp than resistance, etc. But, I'm not sure.

The sure thing though is, the more hp you have, the bigger your CV is. The more damage you have, the bigger the CV is. The more of anything you have, the bigger your CV is.

So, in order to avoid a lot of the endless tedious discussions and fights over which class is too strong and which one is too weak, we could have this CV number displayed right next to the name of us and our opponent in PvP, as to have at least a rough idea about their power level.

I know, it won't be a precise number:
You can't tell from one general number how much hp the SW you're facing has, or if he has brutally great dmg at the cost of low armor etc., or if he is using a very special set bonus that gives him a qualitative advantage, like currently the q8 set, or q7 set for example do, or what exactly is the deal with him.

But you can at least know that if his CV is 280,000 and yours as a DK is 130,000, and he defeats you with one shot, it's not a class balance problem.
It would be a class balance problem if your CV's were similar.


In short:

Can we assume CV gives us at least a rough idea about the power of players?

If it does, can we put an end, or rather greatly reduce the almost toxic class difference discussions by simply letting players know what sort of CV do their opponents have?


Thanks for your attention.

 

CV is useless ... just ignore it.

 

Ah... Well, then I wish it was calculated in a better way so it actually returns a relevant number :/ Wouldn't an appropriate CV make it easier to say who is much stronger or much weaker than I am? It doesn't need to be really super exact...

 

i disagree the idea to know the strength of the player by just looking there appearance or knowing there CV. let it secret...if you want to know him, ask to go pvp or battle outside arena.

Anyway CV its not important value to pro/veteran player because that number does not defined whether that value is for offensive or defensive value. What matter's here is how you enjoy your game toward pvp or pve.tnx

 

Yeah it would! -But CV is used to confuse and bewilder n00bs to make all the wrong choises and force them to leave the game! If U think about it, a lotta things work that way in this game! =o) Its like in real life: U gatta fight through a lotta BS to reach Ur goal, and once U finally see the finishline and know Ur gunna make it, BP changes the rules! =o)

 

Long story short, the CV system is just as useless today as when it was introduced over two and a half years ago.

I did an objective write up back then looking at why the system made no sense when it comes to measuring defensive or offensive power reliably. It was written to complement a similar but subjective post written by BigPappa. Both are good reads on the subject.

To sum it all up, I made a recommendation for a proper system that would use Effective HP and Damage Performance Index as the foundation for a two (or three) number CV that would have actually been useful, accurate, and intuitive. I also made recommendations for how to adjust the item comparison tool and make it useful... Did the developers use it? Nope. Instead, they have left the system in place for almost three years... a system that is so bad that countless players ask questions about it because it is so confusing and useless.

The irony is that the rational of using a single number representing over all power was because a two number system (offensive and defensive) would confuse players. I ask you this. If you had two numbers, one red (offensive) and the other blue (defensive), would that make sense to you? With a well designed system, I could stand in town and say "I'm looking for any DPS class with a red CV higher than 100k" or "I'm looking for a tank with a blue CV higher than 200k." But this is BigPoint we are talking about... when was the last time they demonstrated common sense?

 

Hmm, well if it's not an important number, there's no need to keep it secret.
But anyway, what I really meant by making the CV visible for others, was to make it visible on the pvp tab when you enter the arena. The reason for this is not to mock other players or to exploit them, but to know when one is justified to complain about class disbalance.

But of course, this would only make sense in case that CV actually represents the character power correctly.
You mention offensive and defensive value. I think, just like @_Baragain_ said, 2 values being displayed would be great:

I like this, but at the same time, despite sort of refuting @girliex's objection, I'm a little bit worried that displaying CV's everywhere, like in towns and whatnot, might hurt weaker players, as everyone could see they are weak and nobody would ever accept them to their party :/ Wouldn't that be a problem? Or maybe not, Idk.

 

Simple... show it to group and guild. I don't mind helping players from time to time, but I'd like to know what I'm getting myself into before I start the run. If they have the sort of CV that is best suited for painful, I don't think I'm going to farm Infernal II with them for the hell of it. And in a guild, there is supposed to be a certain amount of trust, so why not. It tells you who to turn to for help, who needs help, and promotes healthy competition in the family.

 

It generally doesn't take much to spot a complete newbie (the grey mount, those old level 40 cloaks, and mismatched gear are usually giveaways). So I personally don't see a problem with displaying CVs. Other games let you see far more about other players than DSO does and as far as I can tell, those players are doing just fine.

Any suggestion to make CV more useful than clutter on the screen is welcome in my books.

 

Pretty good ^^

I was afraid weaker players might be disadvantaged, but at the same time the truth is, weak players sometimes abuse the fact nobody knows how bad they are, so they are accepted to the group to which they cannot contribute and the group leader cannot kick them.
I've recently met a guy, 46 level, whom I helped a bit with unlocking q2 (despite my character is below average really), and some 3 days later he messages me if I can go q1-q9 with him... I mean, it took me months to unlock all q's xD.

That's right. On the other hand, especially nowadays a lot of people can get their hands on pretty fancy costumes and mounts on low levels already, provided they have the andermant...

I personally would have no problem with my own CV being displayed for others, be it pvp exclusive, or all players everywhere, or just friends/guild.