Im a bit lost :)

Discussion in 'General Forum' started by FAALHAAS, Aug 14, 2018.

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    FAALHAAS Forum Mogul

    Step1: did this same day and as I said ; its not much of an improvement of what i used. And the game loves dropping the same piece over n over again...and never an improvement either.
    Step2: Also did that same day as the advise was you got to keep in mind, wisdom was hard to get when i played, so I dont have 100 points to spend. At that point I was lvl20 wisdom. Maxed HP and put rest in dmg. (it did gave a nice boost, but it still doesnt help me get into dungeons/parralel or anything that really matters.
    Step3:I did that almost lvl55 now
    Step4:well those didnt come yet
    Step5: No I die REAALLLL FAST, to be more precise....the 10seconds cooldown after you died takes longer than i can survive a hit from a monster.

    So were back at square 1...or I am better said :)
    All this advise still dont make me able to do dailys and farm clovers to buy gems that DO improve gears so I can build towards painfull/paralel. The only path I can take is farm the dungeons I can on normal and farm a billion gems/wisdom/ander while every other person can do a daily, get a clover and made more progress than i did in 6 months farming. (just estimating...)

    Yesterday I farmed balor for hours, just to get a set and cus i was bored, but that set also not improvement of stats. Taking me hours to get and its not even improving stats. (like i said above post...lost 10k CV, so i just use my old legends/unis and that was 7 hours of balor hehe so thats something i wont do anymore)

    I dont see how pvp keeps putting me with 200k CV while i have 60k...I can never win, so never get clovers and never be able to buy gems, or spend a million on jesters maybe.

    10days has passed and im still doing the same dungeons on normal and no progres made. Yea i leveld up, but thats it.

    So you all tell me how usefull al the advise is? I apreciate you all try, but you got to be realistic and nobody gave me a solution to get clovers for example. (and im pretty sure you all know how important those gems are, cus every screenshot of gears I see from people are full with those gems). Now I get that they also come with certain events and certain events come with great sets and other rewards, but in that case; send me an email when those events start, i might give it a go.
    Last edited: Aug 23, 2018
  2. Archane

    Archane Forum Apprentice

    Growing a toon is certainly not easy especially since they have changed the power of the monsters but what i think might help you is too not worry much at all about building at the moment and just work your way to lvl 55. Once at 55, focus on the desert areas only for awhile and you can get the desert and dunes sets and that will increase stats and provide crit hit and even an armor break if you have the right dunes belt which you can buy for bone coins that you can farm in deeps of demise. This is what made the biggest difference for me growing as a toon and now ive replaced all that gear with dragan and other pieces and have worked my way up to doing fatal at least in pw and other areas, so im still growing but i just wanted you to know that you can still grow a decent toon but the first trick is just to get to lvl 55 and the desert.
    KingKrazy1 likes this.
  3. KingKrazy1

    KingKrazy1 Active Author

    So then you arent Lvl 55 yet, so why would you be moving on to step 4 or 5? Archane has given the correct middle step.

    Why would you do this? Who told you to do this? You can see the stats of the unique items, so you should have known they wouldn't have been worth it.

    I never play pvp, only get clovers from events, yet I am soloing tier 2 and 3 with mostly tier 0 and 1 gear. How is this? I have crafted, gotten glyphs, wisdom, gems, etc.

    10 days of only half following advice. If you had done what Archane just said, you would have a good set, probably a useable 2h unique (dune weapon), more glyphs, andermant, wisdom, etc.

    Actually, you are wrong.
  4. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    Most of the people you see loaded with those gems probably got them by gambling tons of andermants/gold at the jesters. They are not free players who collected them from dailies/events. ;) Set realistic expectations -> won't get disappointed.

    Actually, farming Balor isn't that bad. I had a ranger friend who spammed Balor on Normal because he was too weak to really grind much elsewhere, so that's how he got most of xp to level up when he ran out of quests. It's also not too bad of a source of wisdom.

    Also, I suggest stop using CV to measure how good a piece of equipment or how good your character is overall. I'm sure Baragain would be happy to explain why that thing is trash, but use your brain. Brain >>>> CV. A lot of the gear you are going to get while you're still leveling is just transient gear you need to equip so you can kill something. You shouldn't have high expectations that they are going to make you god-like. Until you reach 55 and can farm endgame uniques, then craft said endgame uniques, you will not be god-like. That just means that you have to play like a normal player and actually dodge stuff because you otherwise will get one-shot. When I look back, I actually think DSO's current meta has a higher skill cap than what it used to for new players due to the high damage dealt + variety of enchantments that didn't used to exist. So it's OK if you die... just figure out what killed you and how to avoid it next time. All the old players had to fumble their way through that too.
  5. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    I could, but will he listen?
    Long story short, a "good" character will have "good" CV, but if one character has 50k and the other has 60k, you can't really make any judgements off of so small a gap.
    And what difference does that make? Because of the changes, there are players who have only been around for 6 months that are stronger than you, because they are not pining for what was, but playing what there is.

    FAALHAAS Forum Mogul

    Now this is a post I can do something with, thanks! Also thanks @Archane :)
    So my expectations arent realistic, maybe youre right.

    Gears are confusing tho...
    -As a dwarf I thought my focus would be on damage stats, then crit then HP. But those stats rarely come on my gears. They all have block...blockstrenght and thats it. Am I missing something? Do dwarfs tank? (blockrate is i got no clue anymore of what stats are piority now)

    Now I feel real lucky I just found a new rifle with very good damage (like realllly good, 2x100% increase dmg) and finaly a helmet with decent stats, but im still struggling with my current stats;
    3k-4k base dmg
    28k HP
    4.7K armor
    2K crit (was allot higher with old rifle, but 2k less dmg and im guessing DMG over crit )
    2.6x crit dmg
    24% resitance

    So just be fair; am i just a noob again, who got no clue how to play? Cus yes, I do agree 100% that this game got a higher skillcap than before.....allot higher in fact, only for the sole reason HP bubbles dont drop as often anymore and monsters seem allot more agro/hit harder/faster everything. So maybe im just an ultimate noob now who got no clue how to play.
    - Most of the time I die cus my dwarf refuse to jump somewhere and litterly lands inside the boss or group of mobs, or dwarf is frozen for 1 sec after jumping or he jumps twice in a row...all other times its just cus theres too many range mobs outside my screen who still attack and kill me in a couple hits.

    I just keep killing bosses now for exp/wisdom/gems (and every now n then a uniq drops for glyphs). So you all welcome to join my party on Heredur and see if i play stupid and tell me what i do wrong. (IGN: Faalhaaz)

    Thanks all for advise, even if some wasnt that helpfull for now (maybe future wise if i understand correctly, but not for now).
  7. stacker99

    stacker99 Forum Master

    @FAALHAAS As a dwarf you have to do what every other class do - build on crit/crit dmg, and so on. I'm a dwarf in Grimmag server with not impressive stats but I can farm solo up to infernal 1 with green ess except bosses (I didn't try yet) but I have a lot to build too. I need about 80m GoP to level up my gear, my gems are not impressive too but everything is a job of patience.
  8. silverseas

    silverseas Count Count

    Not surprisingly, those are stats of a leveling player. Here's a few basics about stats:
    • If you don't have block rate you don't need block strength.
    • You only need block (both types) if you plan on playing with a one-handed weapon. If you're playing two-handed, you can basically ignore block because it will have negligible effect.
    • Build crit rate before you build crit damage.
    • Offensively, the first three things to build are: damage, attack speed, and crit rate. Consider crit damage to be a luxury item for players who have built up the crit rate upwards of 50% if not upwards of 80%. If you have a crit rate below 50% you do not need crit damage yet.
    • Defensively, everyone should build HP and armor for PvE. Resistances are very helpful nowadays given there are more elemental attacks than long time ago, but if you are really good at dodging stuff, then you can theoretically go without resistances.
    Now as for your question about whether or not dwarves tank... not really. (You probably could, if you really wanted to try, but it's probably going to be miserable until you get god-like items and stats.) I don't play the class, but from what I've observed from other dwarves playing, they are meant to be the highest damage output class. But damage output or not... make sure you can survive. If you are dead, your damage output is zero.

    With regards to your jump malfunction, is your connection good? You can enable ping in settings and observe the number.

    Here's a useful tip with regards to mobs... sure, the skill cap may be higher, but whoever programmed them is still using the same dumb programming that was used many years. In other words, what you can do is walk forward, lure a small group of monsters, back up a few steps so you won't pull any more, lay down your turrets to kill them, and repeat. Don't walk forward and lure more... walk backwards to kill them in an area you already cleared. Of course, if you pull them too far, they will reset, so it's just trial and error to figure out how far you can safely pull them along.

    FAALHAAS Forum Mogul

    Even after all the tips and hours of trying to get atronger/better gears. (i improved allot if i may say so)

    I still cant clear Q1. I just dont know what to do, soon I get to miniboss that explodes....I die. I can jump away 1 time, but hes so fast I cant jump away a second time or use potion that fast.

    Its just insta die. I try it couple times, but eveyrtyime its just 10secs waiting. After a couple times I press X and leave the game cus i dont get it. (i dont even recall this miniboss couple days ago when i was trying, i thought i atleast came to the very i cant even do half of the map)

    Everyone can keep saying of how nice their advise is, but to me it seems now i only get worse and worse. When I ask people in-game if they can help me do q1; 100% answer is: HAHAHAHAHHAHAAAA U NOOOB

    Im guessing theyre right and since I will need billions of glyphs to upgrade gears (that doesnt even seem to be that much of an upgrade if i look at stats) or farm materi frags...which I simply cant. I think im just going to let it be, if i see others say they can clear it EASY and i should be able to then i just accept the fact that its me.

    Social aspect in this game is terrible. Dont think ive ever seen so many rude replies in whispers when i ask for help....and ive been playing MP games since 1997. Goodjob to the playerbase for being nr1

    Thanks to ones who tried telling me what to do here on forum, but sorry, its not helping a single bit. If i want to upgrade my gears I need to farm normal dungeons for years (litterly YEARS) and then i can do q1 so I can farm materi frags. Well **** no; by then this game is shutdown//
    Only chance I got is if one of the good events will be here, but i doubt ill be able to do those as im just a terrible NOOB (as ive been told)

    To bigpoint; It be nice if you have a welcome back pack or something for people who return to game after a longtime, so they wont get stuck like I do. Its bigPOINTLESS now

    Best regard and wish you all much fun..


    little sidenote; this game is full of casino concepts and thats something I hate to the bone and im really surprised this is accepted. (pretty sure theres a law regarding casino aspects in onlinegames that targets young players, im going to dive into that, since i got rivers of time now)

    IKILLGIANTS Active Author

    hello faalhaaz!!! after reading all your thread i feel the need to tell you something: you are not special!!! you must follow the same path as everyone else in this game,you will either farm,farm and farm again or you also can pay and farm ,farm and farm again,most of the rant is why is nobody is offering a wonder solution or why there is nobody to offer his time and resources to YOU! try to make friends,team up with players in same boat as you and keep trying,every bit of progress is a step forward
  11. KingKrazy1

    KingKrazy1 Active Author

    I am pretty sure that this miniboss you refer to is the Dwarf Mech from the mini event, not a regular q1 miniboss. This mini boss is very unbalanced. The difficulty of the dwarf mech on painful is what I think it should be on fatal. This means that your character is probably strong enough to complete q1. So you have progressed and it hasnt been too long. Certainly not years and years.

    I agree this is a problem in the game, but not as much as you think. I have recently gotten on the forums and started grouping up in the game. For 5 years I only played this game solo and with one other person. I have found lots of really nice and fun to play with people that arent rude in any way. Remember, rude is subjective. Whats rude to me might not be rude to you and vice versa. For example, you thought the responses to you on this thread were rude, while others thought your responses were rude. Im sure you can find some ppl to play the game with and have a good time. Look for them and stick with them.

    I completely agree. This is (to me) the worst part of DSO, and what I have been most vocal in chastising. I really hope the legislation catches up to them and forces them to disclose all odds on any direct purchases within game. That is, jesters, crafting, lucky spheres, pet package, etc... They could probably get away with the mini event rewards because you cannot directly purchase a golden truncheon, but the idea is similar. BP should already have implemented this, because they are owned by a Chinese company(Youzu Interactive). In China it is illegal to gamble and it is illegal to sell loot boxes without disclosing the odds (see this article).
  12. bezryl

    bezryl Active Author

    returned to the game myself a bit ago and here is some of the things ive done to get some good progress

    dont start in pw's, go to scaling dungeons if you can they seem to be easyer

    great desert is from what ive found one of the best farming maps in game for dwarfs, tesla turret is your friend here gather mobs place two and run around them as to not get hit, also dont fight the snake mobs stick to the other ones since there isnt any spitters just mele ones that will run right into your tesla

    in the desert you can get the gilt edge set wich is a good start, you can farm it on mode 1 then go on to mode 2 and eventually mode 3 for a tier 3 set.

    you will also get keys from the sentinal wich you can take to khaly fatal and get tier 3 items and take 0 ZERO damage as a dwarf, dont stand in mele range->machine gun turets and her ranged attack will hit them not you. easy peasy no matter what dmg you have might take you a while but you can get it done and possible to get the cloak

    the machine guns will also sheild you from some attacks from *archer* mobs if you stand behind them but on higher modes gona destroy them easy

    this is another option that is VERY EXSPENSIVE on essence and if not premium anders/spirit guards

    take RED/PURPLE ess to varholm on infernal 2/3 and kill the minibosses(use oil slick) take the pink items and make them into leg for some good starting gear. this might not be for you since you will die alot and the wolfs will 1-2 hit you but if you are really desperate for some better items you will get them and if premium chance to get the uniques from the cubes
  13. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    What crafting odds? That isn't some random number that is hidden from the players in the form of a loot box or blind roulette table. That is basic statistics.

    Again, what odds? There is a 1/7 chance of getting any of the listed rewards from your first golden piñata, and then that reward is removed from the pool, making the next reward 1/6, then 1/5, then 1/4... If you did all seven mini events, you got all seven sets of rewards.
  14. KingKrazy1

    KingKrazy1 Active Author

    I understand the statistics. I made an almost identical spreadsheet. However, I would not be surprised if the actual odds of the crafting bench do not follow these statistics. The jesters and lucky spheres are definitely gambling, though. BP did give the odds of the walrus reward for the big game hunt 2 event, but that was not a purchasable item, so it didnt really matter.

    At the time of writing, I was not aware of this. Was this stated before the minis began? Based on how the other random stuff works in this game, why would I assume it worked like this?

    Edit: I went back and read the R212 Patchnotes, explaining this event, and it did not say you would not get repeat rewards. It just says, "Each Golden Piñata will contain several rewards, including Draken and consumable items, and unique rewards, such as:" and then lists the unique item, pet, rune bag, and effect.
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2018
  15. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    No it is not ... that is what i am trying to tell you for years but you don't listen :p
    Exactly ... they are not following those statistics. What are the odds to get same pattern 5 times almost every day out of 20-30 rolls?
    Changing item's place is not changing anything ... you still get the same lines over and over again no matter what slot the item is in.
    I am watching this behavior closely for more than a year.
    This way even the initial Crafting 2.0 is rigged ... you can roll as much as you want (without losing items during crafting) and you will get the same outcome. They have mastered the scam and they are already prepared to make changes in the crafting. :)
    ΣMiwel likes this.
  16. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    We've had this debate before, but until someone presents a dataset large enough to do a proper statistical analysis on, I've not seen anything that indicates that the odds are any less than what they should be. Sure, there is the stat duplication bug that occasionally helps players out, and maybe the PRNG can have "ruts" like what we've perceived in other scenarios, but every empirical test I've done checking out a "random" event has indeed been reasonably accurate. For example, when crit says "72.54%," I'd expect a large enough test to come up with an average rate between 71.5%-73.5%. As far as I know, I'm the only one to do any sort of real analysis on the randomness of this game, so until someone else does and posts their results, I have no reason to doubt the general accuracy of the game's PRNG over a sufficiently large sample.

    Maybe, if someone recorded every craft they attempt for the next six months and record all their data (results and which lines from which items were transferred)... maybe... just maybe, there might be enough data for a first look. I've tried crowd sourcing information before and it was a colossal flop. The only real way to get reliable data would be to do it myself, but since I'm not trying to prove what I am already confident in, I'm not going to take the time.
  17. KingKrazy1

    KingKrazy1 Active Author

    I am not making the claim that the crafting system has weighted probability, I am just saying I don't know and it could be. They are currently working on a crafting update I think, but we haven't had any real news about the progress of game system improvements for over 3 months. I wish the Community manager would just stream like 5 hours a week and talk about features and play the game from level 1 to level 55. In this process they could say "all enhancements have the same chance of being crafted". Obviously this declaration could be a lie, but that would actually be illegal in some places.
  18. _Baragain_

    _Baragain_ Living Forum Legend

    No, that's not directed towards you.
    And before anyone gives antidotal evidence like "I've tried this Blue to Exo craft 200 times and it still hasn't worked," I want you to answer me a simple statistics question... well, "simple" might be a little bit of an understatement, but if you can't answer this question, you don't have the background to be arguing with my statistics knowledge.

    In the recent Stormball event, there were 32 costumes that could drop. It is incredibly unlikely to get all 32 even after as much as 64 drops (0.418%). But, how many costume drops do you need before you have a 95% confidence to have gotten all 32?
    The answer is 201-202

    My point is, each drop has a pretty good chance of happening (3.125%), but it is very possible to get a run of "bad luck" or a run of "good luck." In the same example as above, 50% of players will have gotten all 32 after 123 drops, but if you are one of the 5% that takes more than 201 drops, it is very easy to feel like the game is rigged and you are some how the injured party.
  19. KingKrazy1

    KingKrazy1 Active Author

    I agree that my combinatoric and probabilistic problem solving isn't where I'd like it to be, but I was able to work out this problem (with a little assistance from the internet).
    What I was able to do on my own. Before diving straight into the question of 95% confidence, let us work out the expectation value of this trial. That is, on average, how many costume drops do players need to get in order to get all 32. To do this I split it up into average drops to get the next new costume. For example, everyone has 100% of getting a new costume on the first drop and a 31/32 chance on the second drop. So the the average time it takes going from the 1st costume to the 2nd costume is the expectation of following distribution.
    1 more drop = 31/32, 2 more drops (31/32)*(1/32), 3 more drops (31/32)*(1/32)^2..... to infinity. The expectation is given by: the sum of n=1 to inf of n*(31/32)*(1/32)^(n-1). Plug this into wolfram, or remember it comes from a geometric distribution to get the expectation of 32/31. Therefore, we can generalize this to see that the average number of drops needed to go from having n costumes to having n+1 costumes is 32/(32-n). Thus, the average number of needed drops is the sum from n=0 to 31 of 32/(32-n) = 129.87 ~130. This means that although 50% of ppl only need 123 runs (as Baragain calculated), the average number of drops needed is 130. Remember, a small percentage of people will be unlucky and need many more than 123 runs, but no one can do it in less than 32 runs.
    This problem is known as the coupon collector's problem and Wikipedia has a nice explanation of it.

    This is just the expectation value, however. How can we obtain the probabilities Baragain got? Well, this is where I had to do some researching, but the answer was found on this blog post and in the Inclusion-Exclusion Principle. Basically we have the following situation: The probability of not getting Brazil's jersey in T drops is (31/32)^T, the probability of not getting Brazil's or Germany's Jersey in T tries is (30/32)^T and so on. So, the probability of not getting all the costumes in T tries is the union of the 31 groups described in the previous sentence. However, we cannot just sum up ((32-n)/32)^T from n=1 to 31 because there is overlap (the intersections are not empty in general). So, we need to subtract the overlaps. Skipping the explanation of how to keep track of the overlap, we arrive at the following equation.
    C is the choose function.

    This formula gives us the probability of not getting all 32 costumes in T drops. One minus this will give Baragain's values.

    Well, now that I have shown I understand the maths of it all, let me give my opinions. Let us delineate two uses of the word "fair". Say two people did the Stormball event. One finished collecting all the jerseys in 100 drops and another in 200. According to the probabilities, this is completely fair. Each player had the same chance of getting any given jersey each time one drops, so neither player is given an advantage. However, another way of looking at it, which to me is the more obvious way, is that one player had to work twice as hard for the same rewards. This is not fair. So when implementing randomness into a game, it is fair and not fair. Just because it isn't rigged doesn't mean the person who took 200 runs wasn't injured.

    This says nothing of the fact that getting a drop from one of the trolls might not have given a jersey and entering a normal scaling dungeon might not have resulted in meeting a troll. I think I am justified in saying the Devs didn't really know how long it would take the average player to complete the event. All they knew was that it was grindy enough to entice people to spend ander.

    If it is not eye-bleedingly obvious that I am not in favor of randomness in DSO, let me say it again. I would much rather these events have progress like the Full moon event, which is equal for all players (scaled by their strength). If you are a person who likes this randomness, then you probably would prefer working at a job that pays you a random amount each month. Or maybe you would rather have everyday have a 1/365 chance of being Christmas. I am not saying these two situations are objectively worse. I am saying I do not prefer them.
    Last edited: Aug 28, 2018
    gbit, trakilaki, Zoltan and 3 others like this.
  20. ΣMiwel

    ΣMiwel Forum Ambassador

    My favourite one :D
    I have seen this behaviour, too... but from what I know about such systems, there must be a way of interrupting it, just I haven't found it yet.
    "general" That's the keyword. General. Perhaps generally it's accurate, but true randomness just doesn't exist. You know it just as well as me. Every kind of "randomness" we have here is engineered.
    The PRNG is simply unfair. Whatever way it works, it for sure takes some sort of "character ID" into account (since "good luck" or "bad luck", not only regarding to crafting, but also drops, random chests and other stuff, often is kind of attached to a specific character: not person, not account, but just toon), as such thing exists for sure - even if we don't know the exact value. That, and some other values... no idea what exactly. It knows exactly what we do want, as well - perhaps it recognises golden lines or something like that.
    There the "randomness" problem was kind of fixed by making them buyable. After missing only very few of them, one could just buy the rest.
    The problem with randomness (intentionally no quotation marks) is that it is never fair. It doesn't matter: true randomness (doesn't exist) or engineered. It will never be fair. However, it has always been and probably will be a part of games. I am not requesting it to be truly fair, because that is impossible. What should happen however is moving the randomness towards being fair, so that "bad luck" is out of system. That would happen by making the odds increase with each try (as I have already said, the system knows very well what we want), eventually reaching 100% at some point. I am however almost certainly sure it will never happen:

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