Feedback Release 194 [FEEDBACK]

Discussion in 'Discussions on Current Topics' started by Allogeneous, Jul 12, 2017.

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  1. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    first off, I'd appreciate it if you wouldnt be as condescending as you were in this post.

    1. i did test with and without weapon, and no I'm not clueless as to how the mechanics of frozen sphere works, i do understand that max damage is at center of explosion and less damage from distance.
    2. i took the points out of the 3rd upgrade and saw full 200% damage with mob defense factored in.
    3. i put in 3rd upgrade for 66% damage and i saw a consistent lack of damage, since i used guardian to keep the mini boss, was a lightning mini boss - in place, and i shot sphere from all possible angles, and this is from the range where i got max possible damage

    therefore, yes explosion at center is now dealing 66%+ less damage upon sphere explosion.

    having gotten my damage down by taking wisdom talents,etc off, i test with my base damage being 7k-9k threshold. and with an explosion dmg up to 332% even at perfect range i was hitting 8k to 9k without crit at times, from distance of course it goes way lower, down to 5-6k damage.

    as you can understand, 332% of 7000 is 23,240 and factoring mob defenses thats 11,620 damage.
    332% of 9000 us 29,880 and factoring in mob defenses thats 14,940.
    hitting 8k-9k should not be possible with those ranges.

    this is with proper testing. so im sure this is a bug, since i wouldnt understand a reason to secretly nerf frozen sphere.

    p.s. be sure to consider that others are capable of "intelligence" prior to assuming they dont have any.

    not to be rude, but if you dont play the class or know about the class then please leave it to those who actually do.


    since I made the mistake of posting something here related to numbers without screenshots, i spent some time gathering some.
    i removed my critical hit rate items, and got my dmg as close to 9000 as possible
    to make this easier, I'll add in the dmg sphere explosion should be doing at these values.

    minimum: 11,518 with mob defense factored in
    maximum:15,016 with mob defense factored in
    average: 13,267 with mob defense factored in
    (p.s. sorry if the images arent directly displayed)

    Last edited by moderator: Jul 13, 2017
  2. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    [Disclaimer: I'm no math expert, if anyone sees a major brain freeze from me in this post please let me know]

    Sigh, fine:

    Base damage: 965
    CHR: 0%

    Frozen Sphere's explosion at 200% of your base damage -50% from mobs resistances should deal an exact 965, here's the result:

    Hit at the edge of the explosion:
    After -50% from resistances:
    386=80% base damage

    Hitting dead center:
    (After same calculations)
    (183.19% base damage)

    (190.45% base damage)

    Now, with the 5 point talent: 200%+66% damage should be 332% -50% mob resistance: 1601.9, and just for a matter of proving, if it was 266% that'd be 1283.45 after factoring the -50% resistances, now off we go:

    Hit at the edge (notice how miserable the damage turns when you just scrap with it, and again, after -50% from resistances), in this particular hit the explosion dealt 156.43% of my base damage only:

    Several centered shots (factor the -50% resistances):

    (281.95% base damage)

    (261.41% base damage)

    (292.11% base damage)

    (279.04% base damage)

    All in all, Frozen sphere's explosion damage is not 266% like you said, but it rather has an inconsistent pattern when it explodes no matter if you hit from the same angle, at the same distance and if it's a beautifully centered hit, and it does indeed never reach the max damage as it's supposed to, if you have proof being able to hit either 200% or 332% with flat damage, share the screenshot.

    Now..., here's my personal point of view, which is not necessarily true (I'm not one of the devs after all), and it's based on my observations and opinions, it might be designed this way intentionally because of the other core mechanics of the frozen sphere, if you notice the screenshots what is consistent is the 50% damage from the trail, and depending on the mob's hitbox, you can often get a good explosion damage % and two 50% tics from the trail, if frozen sphere was consistent with the 332% base damage that would make 332%+potentially 50%/100% from 1-2 trail tics, that'd be 382%-432%, now, if on top of that you add the spam potential the FS has due to the +10 mana regen per enemy hit it would hands down be one of the most powerful PvE skill across all classes (if not the most powerful), maybe except on single targets like bosses since the mana regen becomes inconsequential against them, I could be right, I could be wrong on this, but I honestly doubt any of the devs will come and clarify this.

    For Agathon's sake, stop being so sensitive, we're trying to discuss a topic like adults, and FYI, all damage testing is optimal with flat damage, removing your crit alone won't do the trick since you have open room for even more inconsistencies.

    Dude, this is an open forum, we can all participate in the discussions regardless of which class we play, I haven't seen anyone telling you to rack off of a thread because another poster has the feeling you know nothing about the topic, despite playing the class or not, I guess we can all understand the mechanics involved when numbers are provided, just like in the old SM bug thread, all classes were participating there.

    Note for the mods: I know this falls a bit into off-topic since we don't know if this skill's behaviour was changed with R194 or not, please do not delete the post, I'm okay with the discussion being moved out of the feedback thread if you deem it necessary, thanks in advance.
    Redkiller12 and xXxTroublexXx like this.
  3. rogue07

    rogue07 Someday Author

    as you can see from your own screenshots, you NEVER hit the full 332% frozen sphere damage, even your highest hit was below 300% with a centralized explosion.

    and this is where i fall short, because maybe its what we all need to do nowadays; take screenshots of our damage with every skill prior to an update.

    my point is, i know clearly it used to hit the perfect 332% frozen sphere damage as i have seen 15k with 9k base damage, upon sphere explosion - as a matter of fact it was the norm for me, and yes this is without crit. but issue is, i dont have screenshots of this and its not possible to revert to r193 so yeah...

    ever since r194 was released i have not once gone above 12k explosion with sphere even at 9k base damage.
    as you have seen in my posts, the sphere landed inside the hitbox of the mini boss, most of my explosions were almost near dead center and yet you saw the damage i had dealt. since update I've not hit even 300% once even if i land dead center.

    this has ONLY been happening after r194 as i play on my SW every day and of course sphere is the skill SW use majority of the time in pve. im not exactly sure what they did, but you've seen it yourself.
    even when you hit dead center, your damage was 1.4k whereas it should have been 1.6k instead.

    i really hope this gets looked into because i couldnt care less if they turned fireball into a 50% damage skill or remove sigris ice missile buff from sigris - pvp is not my focus and at this point not many ppl care that much about pvp anyway.
    but sphere, the range is crippling enough as is, theres a lot of positioning and risk involved - and the last thing i need is a dmg reduction on that.

    it would the most powerful Mob based PvE skill across all classes - and thats logical because SW description says their strong point is dealing with crowds. so SW having the highest crowd control in PvE is supposed to be how the class works, whereas rangers excel in single target damage.

    but then again, if you noticed that a ranger can clear a mob much faster with thicket and curse of druids, you would know that sphere isnt exactly all that op in pve in comparison. once thicket is laid out properly and the chain reaction happens - everything dies instantly.


    also... i should've done the testing without weapon, but since it's already done, id rather not redo it all over - although everything is still on point regardless as i factored in the variables in my previous post.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  4. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    thicket deals like 300% multiple times so it makes sense its faster
    actually not
    432% with 40 manacost is far behing explo dealing 500% to marked targets ( 125% base *2 vs marked + 250% explosion) cost free due to q7 ad with greater AOE

    2nd place belongs to sphere or thicket ... depending if you have enought damage for kill or not
  5. Redkiller12

    Redkiller12 Forum Great Master

    Thicket of thorns talent deals 300% up to twice,not multiple times.( it can deal up to 600% dmg,only when the first monster dies in the 1st second and a 2nd in the 6th second,which is hard to happen.It does not deal multiple damage if many monster die together.)
    Ice sphere may deal 370-432% ice dmg with a cost of 40 mana,or even lower with more monsters hit which makes it spammable(hard but it's possible),slowing too.
    EA deals 500% physical dmg to one marked enemy and 250% physical dmg for every other with the explotion,having the option to break the armor to enemies with a cost of 66 concentration points.
    *You can't compare 2 skills that the one has a buff from a set,it'll surely be stronger.
    They have their advantages and disadvantages making them quite similarly powerful.Maybe Ice-sphere needs a little buff to the dmg making it more powerful for pve-wise.

    About this "change",i didn't pay attention to what the description of the Ice-sphere said before 194 patch.If it said that it deals up to 200% dmg,then it's a bug fix just like the EA,if not,then i think it's just an unessesary "nerf" or "bug".Either way,the devs should have said that "change" in the patch notes.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  6. trakilaki

    trakilaki Living Forum Legend

    Good evening!

    Tonight I will be giving the devs my feedback ... through lesson in history.

    - Once upon a time there was a game ... DSO it was the name.
    - August 2015 - R155 has been released:
    With R155 EA has been introduced in the game.​
    - January 2016 - R160 has been released:
    In this release you nerfed the EA​
    - July 2016 - R169 has been released:
    With this release you changed the EA behavior so it can suit the noobs play. You deliberately nerfed the impact arrow and boosted the AoE ... making the rangers noobs and forcing them to play like noobs who are just spamming EA wherever they can.
    Luckily some players didn't took the bait and did foresee the future PvP gameplay (blind shooting)​
    - July 2017 -R194 has been released:
    With this release EA is exploding only when hitting the target. Well all is good so far ... EXCEPT for the cover up.
    You previously nerfed the Impact Arrow while boosting the AoE ... and now you are taking away the explosion if not hitting the target. :)
    You think we are fools or something? :)
    The logical thing when doing this kind of nonsense is to revert back the Impact Arrow at its previous state. Why would I need a boosted AoE if i am not about to have use of it?
    This one is huge nerfing. I don't care what you do with your stupid sets and the game breaking bonuses ... i don't use them ... i will never use your Hoaxbows. And then again you are nerfing my skills ... I repeat ... MY skills just because you are making idiotic item sets which I am not even using. I use longbow and I can't even clear normal maps now ... because:
    1. you don't give us unique longbows and quivers (crap moon items doesn't count ... you can use that on your own ... i don't use that kind of items ... if they could be called items)
    2. You are making a gear only to suit Hoaxbow play
    3. you are nerfing my skills
    4. My ranger is dealing less damage than before R194 with any of its skills ... this was not included in the patchnotes. You changed damage formulas again?​

    Think about your future steps very carefully ... because this game is DEAD only and only because of YOUR unacceptable actions.
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
    VukChe, Sh1tmaster, Saabia and 5 others like this.
  7. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    wth are you talking about ... nerfing ?

    single target damage stay same ... aoe get buff there is no situation where you would deal less dmg than pre 169 = its buff not nerf you didnt lost anything just more of your hit splash to multiple targets
    you can use explosion same as before patch all they did is preventing pvp abuse , if you hittarget you hit it by base dmg and explosion = no change at all and for that target irrelevant if its 300+200 or 250+250 in both cases if you miss you deal 0% if you hit you deal 500% and this is how it should be from start

    they didnt nerfed your EA because q7 .... they nerfed q7 from that reason lol

    EA nerf come because you got
    1) unbalanced range ( highest range + explosion aoe)
    2) didnt even had to aim
    3) skill worked diferently from tooltip (so its explosion on max range might be even unintentional bug lol)

    Marked foes who are hit will suffer double the damage 'The arrow will explode shortly after penetration 'and cause the foe it hit, as well as all others 'within a 3.2 meter radius, 150% of your base 'damage as physical damage.

    this is original description ... where you read its supposed to explode withou hit ... it clearly states after penetration = that clearly means its supposed to explode when you hit something

    we read exactly this after every change and event for years we heard it after xp block ... after dwarf fix ... after lvl 55 ... funny fact is .. game will go on no matter what you think or if you stay or ragequit because you have to aim now

    btw in race for top dmg skill we have also 332% +50% +75% lightning strike with bear set :)
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2017
  8. Redkiller12

    Redkiller12 Forum Great Master

    It was a nerf,since the arrow by that time it dealt 150% (300% dmg to marked) to single target,which with the talent (33% dmg up) the dmg became 200% (400% to marked) to single target.They changed it to deal 150%/300% dmg with talents,which is a nerf of 50/100% dmg.
  9. EhtovK

    EhtovK Old Hand

    Incorrect, Lightning strike deals up to 250% of your base damage to non electrified opponents, with the native skill's mechanics, it'll deal an extra 33% against an electrified opponent, so, 250%+33%=332.5%, we all agree up to this point I presume.

    Now, it's a common mistake to believe that the Bearach's set adds 50% to that 332.5%, but it's not the case, the bear's set just changes the native 33% of the skill to 50%, so you'd have the same 250%+50%=375% base damage against an electrified opponent, and the cross lightning deals a standard 75%, regardless of the opponent being electrified or not.

    In conclusion: Lightning Strike's damage (direct central hit) without Bearach's set: 250% to non electrified opponents, 332.5% to electrified ones. With Bearach's set: 250% to non electrified opponents+75, 375% to electrified ones, the cross is an independent hit, and as I said, it will be always 75% no matter if the opponent is electrified or not, all in all, the max possible output on an electrified opponent while using Bearach's set and getting a direct hit is 375%+75%=450% total.
  10. anolajen

    anolajen Someday Author

    160 was nerf sure but

    you should read that post second time before quoting it i talked about 169 ( and quoted 169 lol) in 169 they change ea ... you put it between nerfs while 169 buffed it from 300 +200 to 250 +250 ( already multiplied wit talents) so yes 169 was buff
    you confusing 169 change with pre-160 talent

    hetovk ... ah true forgot that 50% work so weird still 450 is more than 432 and if they keep sphere ruined dealing between 200and 290 even on direct hit we might have to go this way

    - no one ever told augment cores come with 194 they just appeared on test server after 193 .... but this doesnt mean they come in next patch .. for example infernal II and tier V is on preview for months some official info would be great ( about both )
  11. Erebus

    Erebus User

    A friendly reminder, there are dedicated sections of the forums where you can freely discuss class balance, and there's ongoing discussions at this moment, this is a feedback thread, please stick to the Guide for giving feedback, any further rantathons about perceived class imbalance or changes unrelated to the release will be deleted from this thread, best regards.
  12. MademoiselleCaramel

    MademoiselleCaramel Junior Expert

    I took some time to really test my game, to see where I am after this nerf.

    I had gilded for daily, so SADLY, I had to play PVP. You sure made it much more challenging (if I'm not vs some q8-set-crazy-missile-spam-mage, then I chill dead all the time). Its kindaa fun, however its impossible to kill dwarfs in 1v1. Explosion was my one and only successful way. But meeeh, we all know that the dwarfs are class with many benefits.

    Regarding q7 set nerf.... It was really useless. All you achieved is that you made my game more difficult, more slower, more boring and you made me sad. Maybe if there was never 3sec buff, it will be easier, cuz I wouldn't ever know how better and easier can it be. I really enjoyed that set. Why, oh whyyy you had to took away that enjoyment from the game??

    Btw, how can players trust you now, and buy any other PW set, when we don't know for sure what will you nerf next? You should really take care more about all of this.

    P.S. Classes should not be equal in misery, by nerfing them one by one.
    Please_enter_a_name and Saabia like this.
  13. bLaind

    bLaind Forum Baron

    Thanks again for:
    - the currency bag! I think that solved the lag you usually get after some time when you were auto-picking up multiple stacks of MFs, RFs and bone coins.;)
    - ruining the NM set(s).
  14. Saabia

    Saabia Forum General

    I am glad to read this...thank you!
    I hate the Idea that skills are nerfed because of a [EDIT] set.
    I also want to have a choice how to play my ranger.

    Kind regards

    trakilaki and bloodyneo like this.
  15. User330K

    User330K Junior Expert

    I went to Blakborg to farm some fairy fuzz...

    1st turn on normal. Ended up with 49.
    2nd turn on painful. Ended up with 29.
    3rd turn on painful again. Ended up with 25.
    4th turn on normal again. Ended with 39.

    Any idea how is this possible? o_O
  16. cogix

    cogix Regular

    What I like about this release is the currency bag.
    It is saving some of my inventory spot.
    What would be great is to have similar "bag" for all the essences in the game (green, blue, purple, red, silver ess, light ess, snow ess....)
    since I have about 20-30 slot in my inventory just for those essences
    About new moon event, I will give my opinion after the event. Up to now the new map seems an improuvement
    Iselda likes this.
  17. Iselda

    Iselda Advanced

    Hmm You were somehow lucky ;) I had 2 runs- first on normal, second on painful. From normal I got 30 fairy wood and entire page of loot, while on painful only 25 pieces of wood and half a page of loot. One of my ingame friend had 35 wood from normal and 35 from painful. Guess the wood-drop depends on the map not on the level.
    To be honest I see no improvements in the loot (wood and items). Will try to participate in the event, but I lack motivation (the old set is gone and I didn't finish to complete it all :( )

    As for the rest of the release - absolutely love the currency bag and I'm looking forward to more things like that :)
  18. Saved_81

    Saved_81 Forum Master

    The patch has a lot of positive aspects.
    A better review can be done fter the event to see how fast can be completed and the drop rate for the items anyway, so far:
    - the currency bag is a plus even if I would have added a lot more stuff in there... for instance all the other event items
    - the new event sets are good... very good... they are far better than before and anyone I know wise enough to buy/drop them @ lvl 55 already converted em into the new version. A lot of them are SW with the bearack set (therefore are using the cloak + boots) but there's also a good number that dropped the Q7 set for the 3/4 set bonus. All the RA I know are using cloak and adornament. My newbie friend SM will use the 4/4 witch seeker (because he can't get the Q7 set not beeing lvl 50 yet). Obviusly the twin sisters set isn't good enough for SMs but... it's normal I suppose, that's good for the differentiation of the classes. I don't have any 2h DK so I don't know what they are gonna do with the new sets.

    But also exteremly negative ones:
    - the nerf on the Q7 set obviusly should be biased because that's not fair to anyone, the ones that already got that set got no refound and the nerf is affecting mostly the PvE aspect while the intention probably was to affect the PvP (therefor not only the move was harsh toward the players but also totally uneffective for the purpose)
  19. -HARRA81-

    -HARRA81- Forum Mogul

    I like the reworked items of the New Moon but is the Witch Seeker set still available or not ?
    I see only torso and belt for "possible drops" in the dungeon entrance window.
  20. User330K

    User330K Junior Expert

    Well, probably lucky then, but ist just annoying that the entrance states that you get 150% of the base dropped Access items, which i guess are the fairy woods, and still you get 50% less than you can obtain on a normal difficulty run...

    But anyway... at least I can farm event progress a bit faster than I could before the difficoulty options...
    Iselda likes this.
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